Pocket Guns

S

SteelChickenShooter

New member
Perhaps members can sway me either way and I'm good with that. My problem is that I sold a DB380 and am considering buying the newer DB9. But I read other forums here and there and I see accounts of problems and complaints with a number of pocket pistols. This leads me back towards the S&W J-frame design or more specifically my current M&P 360 in 357Mag for pocket carry. My observation has been that all the accounts I read where people describe their problems, they all seem to center around assorted malfunctions of the pocket semi-autos. Makes me wonder if I should abandon the idea of buying a Diamondback 9mm or not. It certainly is slim and is easy to conceal. No question a good 9mm load is quite suitable and more power than a 380. But at the risk of malfunction, and the known reliability of a good revolver loaded with 357Mags, I just wonder if it's worthwhile to buy one. I'd love to have a DB 9mm for easier concealment compared to my revolver, I just don't like the idea of having any possible failure to load, a jam, or magazine issues when I know I could have 5 rounds of 357Mag with no possibility of having those same types of failures. What do you guys think?
 
It's a conundrum all right,,,

Five, all the time,,,
or
Nine, almost all the time.

What is making me trust my mouse gun more and more,,,
Is I started going to the range after work more often.

I am starting to trust my semi-auto,,,
Because I shoot it more often,,,
And it just keeps working.

I am religious about keeping it very clean and well oiled,,,
Takes 5 minutes when I get home from shooting,,,
It's a 22-PLY and hasn't failed in 1,100 rounds.

I average 2-3 failure to fire in each bulk pack,,,
A second pull of the DAO trigger solves that problem.

I only use the bulk pack as practice ammo at the range,,,
I load it with CCI MiniMags for carry ammunition,,,
I've never had a MiniMag fail to fire.

In contrast I have a few other semi-auto's I can't trust,,,
They are great and pleasurable range shooters,,,
That have never demonstrated solid reliability,,,
I could never feel comfortable carrying them.

So my point is the only way to trust a semi-auto,,,
Is to shoot it enough that the gun earns trust.

That's what worked for me anyways,,,

Aarond
 
A well maintained semi will function reliably though you must train for FTE's and the like so you may quickly clear the weapon 'if' necessary. A BUG is important as well. Bottom line for me is I like the additional firepower the semi affords me (especially in some of the bad neighborhoods I must frequent).

That being said, I am sure I could quickly adapt to revolver speed loaders and feel entirely confident in most cases--But I can carry 50+ rounds of ammo in three mags with my semi and that just feels right.

-Cheers
 
Before people start waxing poetic about the absolute unfailability of the S&W J frame, let me slip in my experiences with three different revolvers that failed for various reasons (and by failed, I mean they did not fire when the trigger was pulled). I have several semi-autos that have never failed. My point is that nothing made by the hands of man is perfect.
 
I started out confident in my DB380, but that faded the more I shot it. Limiting the first session to about one box of ammo, the little bugger seemed to work fine. But the more I shot on a another visit to the range, I did have a couple stove pipes. And another guy shooting the same gun did as well. And even a third guy had some stove pipes. That made me have no confidence since who could possibly know if you will or won't have a malfunction when or if your life is on the line. True it mostly ran fine without fault. But then it did stop once in a while with a fault. I have absolute trust in my larger size pistols, but they don't fit in a pocket. A number of full size pistols have had no faults what-so-ever. I guess my plan will be this : I initially like the DB9, and the size is sure right. I wonder in general about reliability of such a small gun when it comes to physics or mechanics, so let's see more of what members can say from their experience.
 
J-Frame Opinion

Let's say for the sake of discussion that I've had eight J-frames and at least that many more larger revolvers. I can't think of a single time where I've ever had a failure to load, fire, or extract. Can't say the same for pocket autos. But still, I'm hoping enough members will provide enough favorable comments to prompt me to try one. Like I said, it sure looks like a winner to me if I can only trust it well enough. But don't hold back, if there are problems with rounds, pins, springs, or other please let me know so I can iron it all out.
 
I just don't like the idea of having any possible failure to load, a jam, or magazine issues when I know I could have 5 rounds of 357Mag with no possibility of having those same types of failures. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

<shrug>. Revolvers have their own unique failure modes.
 
With a larger semi auto with a slide of decent mass you can use different weight recoil springs and still have the weapon function. But with those tiny pocket pistols, that slide cycles really quickly and the spring has to be perfect otherwise the pistol is going to catch the case on the way back and stovepipe. And it's difficult to get a single spring to function across all different weights of 9mm from 115gr to 147gr.

I think that's also why you need to change the springs on those little pistols. if they start to lose tension - the functioning of the slide falls out of spec and you get failures to feed and eject.

If you read the Rohrbaugh forum, you'll hear about people having problems with different brands of ammo - but the R9 works well with the 124gr Gold Dots.

So in this way, a revolver is easier to make reliable - shortening the barrel and puting one less chamber in the cylinder doesn't significantly alter the functioning of the weapon.
 
Carry a pocket J Frame 95% of my off-duty time, the other 5% I throw a Ruger LCP in my pocket. Both are carried in pocket holsters. Been doing it for years and never had a problem with either of them. Blow the lint and dust off of 'em every once in awhile and I'm good to go. The key is to carry the gun in a holster.
 
I've had pretty good luck with all my pocket pistols, both semi-autos and revolvers. I do agree that the semi-autos are less forgiving of either the shooter, poor maintenance, or weak springs. Reliability is numero uno. Either buy, sell, or trade til you find a reliable semi-auto pocket pistol or stick with a J-frame.

Before people start waxing poetic about the absolute unfailability of the S&W J frame, let me slip in my experiences with three different revolvers that failed for various reasons (and by failed, I mean they did not fire when the trigger was pulled). I have several semi-autos that have never failed. My point is that nothing made by the hands of man is perfect.
Click to expand...
Were these J-frames that failed to function? Obviously, anything can malfunction but the malfunction rate on revolvers is much lower than pocket sized semi-autos.
 
If you have actually fired five rounds of "real" .357 Mag from a 340/360, you would already know the answer to this question. A lot of people own 340/360s, but I don't know anyone who practices with them regularly...and having owned a 360 and two 340s, I know why. :) Note the use of the past tense.

There is a reason that the 642 is S&W's best seller, and the size of the "642 club" is huge and expanding. Actually, there are several reasons. The 642 is the perfect combination of size, weight and power...at least, as far as revolvers are concerned.

Having owned a number of j-frames, and having fired a number of others, I believe I can speak with some degree of objectivity on this matter. If you do a search, you will fimd that many others agree with this position.

All that said, I no longer own a j-frame of any description. My Kahr PM9 is a smaller, easier to shoot well and holds more rounds of an (arguably) more powerful cartridge (9mm 127 +p+).

Better yet, my PM9 has exhibited revolver-like reliablility, perfect for the last five years, going to the range about once a week. That is why it is still in my collection, while all the j-frames have found a new place to live.
 
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They were all S&Ws in pretty much excellent shape and well cared for. A Mod. 19, a couple of Mod. 686s, and a Mod. 642. The problems ranged from light strikes to cylinders binding up. In the case of the Mod. 19, the gun actually exploded (with factory 158 gr.) and geeked up the cylinder and crane(?).

I agree that revolvers are generally more reliable but they DO fail and a lot of the time when they do it is something you cannot just cycle through. I think it just boils down to pure preference but I do know that the worry that our weapon of choice won't work when we need it to or isn't up to the task at hand is something that a lot of people agonize over.
 
Lately I have been reacquainted with the J frame. I have to say the more I carry it the more I like it. Recently I did a holster series for that platform and I wanted to get as much carry and range time with it as possible before I made it available. The research is over but the dang gun is still with me. I may be hooked. I’ll be trying out the LCP next month so I’ll have a better point of reference comparing it to a small auto. Up till now I have always been a hard core 1911 kind of guy. (still am … always will be);) But … when I want a lighter weapon I have to say I’m sold on the J frame.
 
I would go for the LCP myself. Add the pinky extension, and a CrimsonTrace laserguard, plus a spare mag in my left pocket, and I'm good to go. After I get my Taurus PT-145 paid off, I'll start looking for an LCP.
 
The Kahr PM9/CM9 seems to be reliable as reported by most of the people who own one, in fact they seem to receive better feedback than the other Kahr pistols - just going by the feedback and number of complaints or lack thereof at the Kahr forum for the various models.

The Rohrbaugh R9 seems to be a very reliable pistol with 124gr Gold Dot - sometimes users have reported finding other ammo that their particular pistol favors and is reliable with. It seems like you have to test your ammo with this pistol but once you've found an ammo it likes - it functions reliably. In some instances the pistol has not been finicky at all for it's owner in other cases though, even the most finicky pistols work well with the 124gr Gold Dots and that's very good SD ammo.
 
I'd suggest that for a pocket gun you carry a Ruger LCR in .357 or a Taurus 650 (again, .357) in a pocket holster tucked into an external jacket pocket. That way, should there be signs of a bad situation coming your way you can just stick your hand in your pocket and be ready to shoot through the holster and your jacket pocket if you don't have time to draw, and no one need be any the wiser that you're armed. If you go with this type of carry you pretty much have to make it a wheelgun though, as an automatic may not cycle all the way if fired from the inside of a pocket (I tried it). If you want the added firepower of an automatic and the added utility of a revolver, carry both. If you have a jacket pocket to stick the revolver in, then you have a jacket to wear over the automatic.

Peace
 
I love my J-frame S&W 640-1 .357 ... great gun that I've carried often. It conceals very well, I shoot it with good accuracy and it's reliable.

That said, I struggle to carry it as often as my M&P 9c and Kahr CW9. Why? Because it holds only 5 rounds were my M&P 9c holds 12+1 and my CW9 holds 6+1. Plus, I carry an extra magazine for each gun I carry and when you add it up it becomes a little surprising:

  • M&P 9c = 12 + 1 = 13 + 12 = 25 rounds
  • Kahr CW9 = 6 + 1 = 7 + 6 = 13 rounds
  • J-frame = 5 + 5 = 10 rounds

Again, though I love my J-frame, I love capacity and that is why I like the 9mm; it's important to me but we each have to choose our path. Other than my Mossy 590A1 for HD, I also have an M&P 9 at home with a 17+1 capacity. I will still periodically carry my J-frame but probably only 10% of the time when it fits my activity, weather or mood.

Good luck on your choice.
 
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Revolvers or semi? Your call.

To get the semi out of the way, Rohrbaugh, nuff said.

On the revolver side you can go heavy or light. Heavy, my choice is the S&W 940. The 115gr CorBon 9mm chronos higher than any .357 over 110gr, didn't shoot any exotic ultra light out of a .357 with a 2" barrel.
On the light side I like my 342PD. Sure it is only a .38, but I am not man enough to shoot the .357 and I believe that all that extra powder in the .357 is burned after the bullet leaves the muzzle anyway. Which is also why the 9mm is faster, it burns more of the powder from its smaller charge while the slug is still in the barrel.
 
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