When i first bought my shotgun a long time ago, I didn't know about the different types of shells. Went to walmart and bought a box of those target loads there were about $7-10 a box. Later when I went to the range, not only did I found out I couldn't use this type of ammunition but they became useless as it just sits in my room collecting dust. So I gave it to a friend who thought it be a good idea to take out the mini target load pellets and replace it with bigger pellets. At first I thought it was a good idea but something kept bothering me thinking that it won't work for some reason. Someone enlighten me please.
Please tell me this won't work
- Thread starter haiyter
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
OK, you're saying, if I grok you correctly, that he took out the lead shot from a factory shell and REPLACED it with larger lead shot?
Hum...
Not really something I would want to attempt.
Are you sure that he didn't fire the old rounds and then RELOAD the empty shells with a new primer, powder, and shot?
Hum...
Not really something I would want to attempt.
Are you sure that he didn't fire the old rounds and then RELOAD the empty shells with a new primer, powder, and shot?
MagnumWill
New member
I think the best idea is to fire the shells, and then reload the hulls... If your friend isn't equipped to do that sort of thing, tell him that I think he's got a pretty good chance of banana-peeling the barrel on his shotgun.
...and seriously, how cheap can you be?
Screwing with a 7 dollar box of ammo isn't worth (a) a destroyed gun or (b) an E.R. visit.
...and seriously, how cheap can you be?
Screwing with a 7 dollar box of ammo isn't worth (a) a destroyed gun or (b) an E.R. visit.It could work in concept; but, you're talking about just one box of shells! After the shot is exchanged, special tools are required for a proper job of re-crimping the shells. The way the shells are now, they're fine for shooting targets. After your untrained friend's conversion, I wouldn't trust them for anything other than shooting holes in the sky on the Fourth of July (and, they can do that now).
Mike Irwin
Staff
Thinking about it some more, it would likely be a bit safer to go from a smaller pellet to a larger pellet. Using the same wad I would think it would tend to give a lighter shot charge overall.
However, if he were going from a larger pellet to a smaller pellet, that would tend to give a heavier shot charge and that could lead to big problems depending on the ballistics of the original load.
However, if he were going from a larger pellet to a smaller pellet, that would tend to give a heavier shot charge and that could lead to big problems depending on the ballistics of the original load.
^However, if he were going from a larger pellet to a smaller pellet, that would tend to give a heavier shot charge
Not necessarily so. That's what I believed for years; but, contrary to common sense, it seems the packing volume of spheres is a constant regardless of the size of the spheres.
Ref. Weisstein, Eric W. "Sphere Packing." From MathWorld--A Wolfram Web Resource. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/SpherePacking.html
Mike Irwin
Staff
"That's what I believed for years; but, contrary to common sense, it seems the packing volume of spheres is a constant regardless of the size of the spheres."
That's not my experience, at least with buckshot.
Some years ago I pulled apart a Remington 2 3/4" No. 4 buckshot (27 pellets, folded crimp), and an S&B 2 2 3/4" 00 buck (12 pellets, roll crimp) shells.
The payload in the No. 4 buck shell weighed nearly half again as much as the 00 buck shell.
Those results might be skewed, however, based on the simple disparity of size and the 00 buck's diameter being a lot closer to the diameter of the shell, which would out of necessity make the packing (more stacking?) process a lot different.
Unfortunately, I'm out of all shot other than 7.5 shot (and I've got precious little of that), so I don't have anything that I can use to do a little fun time comparison with my old dram measure unless I start cutting open more shells, and I really don't want to do that...
That's not my experience, at least with buckshot.
Some years ago I pulled apart a Remington 2 3/4" No. 4 buckshot (27 pellets, folded crimp), and an S&B 2 2 3/4" 00 buck (12 pellets, roll crimp) shells.
The payload in the No. 4 buck shell weighed nearly half again as much as the 00 buck shell.
Those results might be skewed, however, based on the simple disparity of size and the 00 buck's diameter being a lot closer to the diameter of the shell, which would out of necessity make the packing (more stacking?) process a lot different.
Unfortunately, I'm out of all shot other than 7.5 shot (and I've got precious little of that), so I don't have anything that I can use to do a little fun time comparison with my old dram measure unless I start cutting open more shells, and I really don't want to do that...
Mike Irwin
Staff
All I know for certain is that all that math gave me a headache...
Mike Irwin
Staff
Probably won't be removed from the pool.
Kid I knew in high school. Couldn't tell him anything at all, he was the expert in all.
He decided that he wanted to create some super special dove loads and proceeded to pack stuff into a shell willy nilly.
No one knew what he was doing, of course, but even had they they probably wouldn't have been able to stop him.
The first shot blew the side out of an expensive double he was using, and the piece nearly amputated his arm at the elbow.
He had probably better than a dozen surgeries, was in a cast for over a year, and to this day has never regained full use of the arm.
And yet, he still has a couple of kids.
Kid I knew in high school. Couldn't tell him anything at all, he was the expert in all.
He decided that he wanted to create some super special dove loads and proceeded to pack stuff into a shell willy nilly.
No one knew what he was doing, of course, but even had they they probably wouldn't have been able to stop him.
The first shot blew the side out of an expensive double he was using, and the piece nearly amputated his arm at the elbow.
He had probably better than a dozen surgeries, was in a cast for over a year, and to this day has never regained full use of the arm.
And yet, he still has a couple of kids.
Learn something new every day
The sphere packing thing is pretty neat, but I would expect some differences when it comes to shot shells.
1) The pellets loaded may not be the same alloy of lead (probablly a small diffrence) or they might not be lead at all, such as steel or heavi-shot (more pronounced diffrence.
2) Compression/deformation of the soft lead may lead to pellets that pack more densly than perfect spheres.
My MAJOR concern is that the gentleman/gentlewoman in question doesn't have the equipment or knowledge (I want to stress that I mean no dissrespect here.) to do this safely. If they are not aware of what is required to reload the shells safely please get them to purchase or borrow a decent lading manual or a book such as the "ABCs of Loading".
Quote from Mike Irwin:
Matt
The sphere packing thing is pretty neat, but I would expect some differences when it comes to shot shells.
1) The pellets loaded may not be the same alloy of lead (probablly a small diffrence) or they might not be lead at all, such as steel or heavi-shot (more pronounced diffrence.
2) Compression/deformation of the soft lead may lead to pellets that pack more densly than perfect spheres.
My MAJOR concern is that the gentleman/gentlewoman in question doesn't have the equipment or knowledge (I want to stress that I mean no dissrespect here.) to do this safely. If they are not aware of what is required to reload the shells safely please get them to purchase or borrow a decent lading manual or a book such as the "ABCs of Loading".
Quote from Mike Irwin:
Grok? Mike, that is such a strange thing to say. With quotes like this I feel as if The Firing Line has become a Strange Land. Seriously, with a quote like this I feel as if you are some stranger from Mars.
Matt
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Mike Irwin
Staff
Does that mean that I'm your favorite Martian?
Don't mind me. I'm just grumbling from the grave...
The sad part about it is, I've only ever read Star Ship Troopers.
Everything else I know about his work is the result of the continuous contact high from my ex-wife...
Don't mind me. I'm just grumbling from the grave...
The sad part about it is, I've only ever read Star Ship Troopers.
Everything else I know about his work is the result of the continuous contact high from my ex-wife...
davlandrum
New member
Probably a dumb question, but that is what I specialize in....
Why in the heck couldn't you shoot target loads at the range? Isn't that what they were made for????
Why in the heck couldn't you shoot target loads at the range? Isn't that what they were made for????
I recall being introduced to grock in Stranger in a Strange Land, not Starship Troopers. RH coined a marvelous word with grock -- had it as a cross word puzzle clue the other day. Was there a reference to grock in Troopers? It's my understanding that Troopers was done (spring of 1958) during the middle of writing Stranger, so it's entirely possible -- interesting, eh?
Mike Irwin
Staff
No reference to grok in Starship Troopers that I remember.
Just my 10-year-Heinlein-contact-high with my ex wife.
Just my 10-year-Heinlein-contact-high with my ex wife.
The larger the shot, the lighter the drop. That's using a MEC charge bar to meter the shot and weighing the drops. Lighter every time. Any mathematical manipulations that purport to prove differently should be viewed very skeptically.
As far as replacing one size with another, it'll work fine as long as the weight of the replacement shot doesn'r exceed the weight of the removed shot. (The replacement weight shouldn't be too much lighter either or a poor powder burn may result.)
DC
As far as replacing one size with another, it'll work fine as long as the weight of the replacement shot doesn'r exceed the weight of the removed shot. (The replacement weight shouldn't be too much lighter either or a poor powder burn may result.)
DC