Please Read, it could happen to you!!!!!!!!

C

Chris D

New member
Hi all,

Currently my ex wife is taking me to court this Thursday to bar be from carrying a Pistol while I'm out and about with my seven year old daughter. The order she is seeking would bar me from carrying while with her or provide supervised visitation while I'm with her.

She is basing this on her claiming that I "over-react to everyday situations" and I have "anger management problems". No proof nor any incidents. Both untrue. She claims she just found out I carry, so now its a big issue, I have had guns since well before I met my ex, durring our marraige and she has gone shooting on limited occasion, had an FID card, bought me my ruger 10/22 for my birthday etc.

Simply put she is trying to hurt me while making it look like she is being a good parent and making me look like a paranoid whacko at the same time.

Any advice? A Lawyer in Massachusetts that might help out? Anything. I just found out Saturday about this. At the moment I can't find an available lawyer, so I'm on my own Thursday (unless I find one and some Money).

Oh, I was told not to contact her regarding this as she has been advised how to get a restraining order!

ARRRGGGGG!!!!!

Chris D

PS. yes, I'm a member of GOAL and asked for help locating a lawyer.
PPS I have a class A unrestricted LTC


[This message has been edited by Chris D (edited November 06, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Chris D (edited November 06, 2000).]
 
Don't know what to tell ya bub.. but I wish you the best of luck.

------------------
WARNING: This post may be another "self-aggrandizing attempt to cause needless controversy, argument, distraction"
-*-
Keepin' the FUD Legacy Alive! Check us out @ FUD's Fan Club!
 
One of my husband's buddies has been estranged from his wife for over two years. She took their three kids and left the state.

Two years have passed, and he has still not gotten around to filing for divorce, not because he holds out any hope that they'll get back together (it was inevitable and he was relieved when she left), but because as soon as he does he's convinced she'll pull something like your ex just did on you.

Or worse; if she files a restraining order, isn't it against the law for him to even own a gun? He doesn't know and doesn't want to find out.

Dunno what to tell you, but you got my sympathy anyway.

pax


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"Is there anything wrong with a woman preferring the dignity of an armed citizen? I don't like to be coddled and I don't like to be treated like a minor child. So I waive immunity and claim my right -- I go armed." -- Longcourt Phyllis in Beyond This Horizon by Robert Heinlein
 
I ain't no lawyer, but my "common sense belief is that, if you have a permit to carry, she should not have the right to deprive you of that right. Burden of proof should be on her to prove you are, in fact, a hothead who cannot be trusted.

Best advice, though, is to get a good lawyer to represent your rights. This is one time that will be money well spent.

You may also want to contanct the GOA and NRA? Your case sounds like it has the potential to become a precedent case, and the "big boys" like to win the cases that establish precedent.

That said, don't pin your hopes on the NRA or GOA bailing you out. Get the best lawyer you can, and then pursure those other options as well.
 
If you have to go to court without a lawyer.... ask the judge for a continuance... in order for you to have time to get one.... This is no laughing matter. In today's climate, anyone with a gun is assumed to be the BG regardless.



------------------
Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
 
And my brother wonders why I tell him I think he's out of his cotton-pickin' mind for getting married and having children. You just flat can't control the vindictive actions of others. Good luck to you. All you can do is get your day in court and present your evidence. Get the best lawyer you possibly can.
 
Dave R: You obviously have never set foot in "family court." Common sense and family court do not go together. I have had every right stripped of me in family court. I have had the same problems with my ex. She drags me into court under the pretense of being a "concerned mother" and then says all sorts of stuff. Some of it was proven to be perjured testimony, but alas, it would be too expensive and distatasteful for the judge to punish her for perjury. If I had perjured myself, I would be sitting in a tiny cell with close friends. You cannot imagine the state of family courts today.

Bookie has the absolute best idea. When you appear, ask for a continuance and do it for at least 6 months. In this time, write her attorney a lot of letters, and run her bill up. Each letter he has to reply to costs your ex money. My attorney bills me $200.00 per hour. If he even writes a small note, it costs me twenty bucks. Another place to get help is ANCPR. Association of Non-Custodial Parents. They're a wealth of info. They have a website, but I don't know it off hand. Good luck. I'll try to think of other dirty tricks you can pull to hammer her if you get the continuance. There is nothing nice about family court, and you should be prepared to lose all your rights as an American inside that dark chamber. Be prepared, and never be unwilling to be as ugly and mean as you can. At least you'll feel better after you lose your rights because you will lose your rights if you have a Y chromosome.
 
Seems every one is missing not only the ten ring but the black as well in advising you
on this most important matter. Let me put you directly on target with the 10 ring.

WARNING:-- Due to well meaning but uninformed advise,with the exception of the post just before mine,he has some good ideas;

You are very close to a restraining order and having to surrender your guns and permit to carry.

SLAM, BAM, and tough luck turkey,--
so fast it will make your head spin.

AS SOON AS POSSIBLE and first thing tomorrow & not a minute later,Call--

1-888-NRA-3888---

CALL THE NRA AND ASK THEM TO PROVIDE YOU WITH THE NAME AND ADDRESS OF A PRO GUN NRA ATTOURNY IN YOUR AREA. This is a free referal service provided by the NRA.

There is a huge difference between lawyers.

Generic EXAMPLE:

A liberal socialist anti gun lawyer will get you convicted and say he is doing a good job because he reduced your sentance by 2 years.
With the anti gun lawyer, you loose all your guns and carry permit, you serve time, are fined and end up a convicted felon unable to own firearms.

BUT CHEER UP ! HELP IS ON THE WAY!

On the other hand,a NRA pro gun lawyer , who owns guns , is a member of a local gun club and is well studied
and well versed in the gun laws of your state, will get you exonerated, your firearms returned to you and your permit to carry reinstated.You will not be fined or sentenced and will not have any record.


This is very important that you have a good NRA- recommended pro gun lawyer-- a "regular
run of the mill" lawyer just won't do and is totally unacceptable.

You require a pro-gun specialist just as in a medical emergency you would require a
specialist in the nature of the emergency.

Now is the time to spend your money on a good defense; you will regret cheaping out
here as it will come back to bite you on your butt the rest of your life.

Spending money on preserving your spotless record will reward you in cheaper car insurance rates, easier credit and better ability to land jobs.

If you can not get the lawyer in time ask the judge for a continuance in order that your secure COMPENTENT LEGAL REPRESENTATION.

You also need a continuance to procure required evidence critical to your defense.

The key word here is COMPENDENT AND SKILLED IN HANDLEING "YOUR SPECIFIC" PROBLEM and only a NRA GUN LAWYER has the skill and prior experience in GUN CASES that you now require.

DO TAKE THIS SERIOUS THREAT THAT YOUR EX
IS PLACING UPON YOU as just what it is ;
A MOST SERIOUS THREAT.

Just because your wife does not say it properly because she does not know legalise
the prosecuter will know what to do with it.

Your ex is in effect asking for a restraining order on you that will result in your surrendering your firearms to the state
or instead of surrendering and confiscation of your firearms, placing your guns with a federally licensed firearms dealer (a gun shop )for sale
to other licensed and qualified gun owners
if your state will allow this option to confiscation.

The continuance is a most excellent idea as
this gives you time to respond and collect evidence and work upon your defense.

You may need to place your guns with a FFL dealer during the continuation but this is 1000 times better than surrendering or confiscation by the state.

The ffl dealer may , for a fee , while legally placing your guns on consignment for sale to others, and thus keeping the police from aquiring your guns, agree not to sell your guns during the continuance and pending court case.

Then , if you win, the ffl dealer can return your guns to you but if you loose ,the ffl will be prohibited from returning them to you and have to sell them to other approved buyers.

I hope this helps; I have had some exposure
from my customers to problems similar to yours and this has worked for us in the past.

eernest2@yahoo.com

[This message has been edited by ernest2 (edited November 07, 2000).]
 
Hey guy’s

Thanks for the advice and such.

I am going to call the NRA today and see what they can offer for a lawyer/advice…..

I Called GOAL and they recommended two lawyers who a pro gun. Both cant make it on Thursday. So as was recommended I will seek a continuance until I can get proper council.

I'm not (as yet) being asked to surender my firearms nor store them elsewere.

Basically the order for modification is that:

I don’t carry a firearm while I’m with my daughter

OR

I have supervised visits

Neither is Ideal, There asking for a court order that I don’t carry vs. me saying “ok I won’t”. If it becomes an order than it validates her concerns and that is a black mark against me.

At this point no one is asking I give them up. And as for the restraing order, I’m doing all I can to avoid any contact with her. And have made arraignments to have a second party for drop of and pick up of my daughter. So as to further avoid contact with my ex. Now to get her to agree to the drop off situation, or to figure out a way to deal with her without having it lead to a restraing order.

I will write lots of letters and try to work this out directly with her lawyer and avoid court if possible.

Frankly I don’t want to set a precedent for the rest of us....

Keep the advice coming!!!!!!!!!!!

Chris D
 
Never had to deal with anything like this but here are some links I came across a while back. Don't know anything about them.

The Lawyer's Second ammendment Society
http://www.thelsas.org

Second Amendment Attorneys http://www.crosswinds.net/~right2arms/dfenders.htm

Plus I don't know if you have any pro-gun representative, but you might want to call them. Also the Second Amendment Foundation ( www.saf.org ) and/or the Second Amemndment Sisters might be people to talk to.

Best of luck
 
Uhg... what a horrible woman.

I don't know of a good lawyer for you, Chris, but i hope you find one. Don't go it alone if you can help it.

Make it a point to the judge that you've been a law-abiding, permit carrying gun owner since before you met the beah'ch. History is your friend.

Good Luck.

Keep us posted.



------------------
~USP

"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
 
Can you say Countersuit?
Libel. Defamation of Character. Perjury. Any of these work in your case?

Get a good Lawyer. File for a restraining order of your own. Did she ever take drugs? Commit Adultery? Forget to pay a parking ticket?

Sauce for the gander.
 
I know both the parties involved, and I also know that Chris has done absolutely NOTHING to deserve this, except possibly have the impunity to disagree with her anti-freedom ignorance.

First, let me just say this really really sucks. So you are supposed to give up your rights, without having done anything wrong or broken a single law, just because you ex "says so"? This is complete crap, and should be thrown out of any court of law in this country, but we all know that won't happen in this socialist republic.

Second, everyone on the board seems to agree with what I originally told you: hire a damn good firearms expert lawyer, and fight this tooth and nail every step of the way. If you lose, this will haunt you forever! Remember we still have an arbitrary permit system. What do you think will happen when you go to renew your permit 4 years from now, and the issuing authority finds out there was a court order against you to not carry around your daughter because you "have an anger management problem" (can you say "slander")? You won't get it, that's what will happen. Good luck trying to appeal that. It's absolutely sick that you have to fight for your own natural rights without having done anything wrong, but such is the state we live in. I sympathize with the money issue, but I am telling you this in all sincerity: as long as you have to have any contact with your ex at all, this WILL NOT go away, EVER even if you agree to everything she wants, so spend the money now while you have a chance of winning. Don't forget whatever this costs you in legal fees, it will cost her also. How much do you think she is willing to spend on this issue?

Consider a countersuit for libel, slander, lost wages, emotional distress and frivilous lawsuit. I'm serious, don't give up on this. These types of groundless slanderous attacks will only stop when those engaging in this behavior are made to pay the price.
 
Chris,
I just recently had a restraining order placed a psychotic ex-boyfriend who well deserved it. He will never be able to purchase a firearm legally now. It was not difficult getting the order. So it would not be difficult for your ex to get one against you. A restraining order will follow you around wherever you go and will be even more problematic than you think.

When she says not to call her, don't! Don't go near her, glance at her sideways, etc. She will use it against you to get the order in place.

When you go to court, keep your cool. Let her blow up and look like the irrational one. Considering all the bets are aginst you if you don't have a good lawyer, and slim even if you do, at least try not to look like the "over-reacting" person with "anger management problems".

You carry a firearm to preserve the safety of yourself and your daughter. Play this card. I hope the judge will see in your favor. Good luck.
 
The first thing I'd be sure I was carrying would be a tape recorder. Get one of those small ones Drs. use for transcription. If you ever meet your wife, get it all recorded.

Also check into getting your phone calls recorded. You might get your ex-wife to say over the phone that she doesn't think you're a risk or something that underminds her contentions in court.

Get a lawyer.

Don't go see your ex-wife. Stay away from her.
 
Mr Kandiyohi

I have a nice one and will be using it if I'm in her presance. BUT, do to the laws I have to let her know it's on :-(

Runt,

I will stay away form her and will not contact her. I don't want to deal with her even as friends. Which we could have been and ast times were since the split.

I'm tired of her trying to make me look bad, when she is no angel.

Hopefully she will act poorly at court. I have a few emails where she lost it and I didn't. They make for interesting reading.

I will take a recorder with me if I'm ever again in her presence without a witness (that I brought).

Chris D
 
I believe judges tend to be more sympathetic to a woman, which was an advantage in my case, even though the psychotic ex never showed up to court. The restraining order was immediately signed and I didn't even have to say a word.

So if it does go that far and you are summoned to court, please be prepared and DEFINITELY show up. I think those emails from your ex could prove to be valuable and help prove that she is out to get you. I don't know if it varies from state to state, but it would be incredibly embarrassing to have a state trooper show up at your door with a court summons.

I hope your ex does not abuse the restraining order option, since that makes those of us who trully deserve one look bad.
 
I was also thinking....

I don't know if your ex has been harrassing you, especially on the phone. I built up quite alot of ammo on my ex by tracking his phone calls and calling the police when they turned harrassing. The trail of paperwork I had and the numerous police reports helped my situation. Maybe you can do the same? Maybe it's your turn to turn the tables on her.
 
Runt,

I'm bringing those emails to show the discussion that lead to this. We had a two day email fest. She wouldn’t listen to my side. I saved them for just this reason.

I wish she was harassing me more, I’d ask for a restraining order myself. I have told her NOT to call or email me in the past unless it was an emergency. Of course she didn’t listen. I have no proof 

And for a while we got along fine. I have those email also.

On another note, She is required to provide health insurance for me while available by court order. She at the beginning of this year told me she was not eligible for insurance as she went to a new job and was working less than 40 hours. I asked her how or daughter was insured and she said through her Fiancée. I then asked for a letter stating this so I could use it to get insurance. But she could never supply it. In the mean time I was uninsured and desperate to get some but she wouldn’t get me the letter or the cobra info. Since I didn’t think this was true I pushed it with her and found out it was untrue. And she WAS insured and now so am I. She mislead me in direct contempt of court. This will also be brought to the judge’s attention. And of course I have emails!

Yes I will do my best to discredit her. Actually she has discredited herself!

Cant we all just get along!

Chris
 
Update....

Many lawyers called none are avalible....

Shirt tie and suit ready for tomorrow......

I'm asking for a continuance if all my supporting letters/emails don't have an imediate impact with her lawyer or the Judge.

Both GOAL and the NRA are not interested at the moment.

Wish me luck!

Chris D
 
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