Please Help Me Troubleshoot 9mm Reloads

Tony C

New member
All,

Thanks for taking a look and if you have ideas, for your feedback. I'll be as detailed as I can.

I have been reloading for seven years, primarily .45 ACP and .38 Special, adding 9mm in the last few months. Until a month ago, I used a Hornady single-stage press and didn't have this problem. Now I am using a Hornady's LNL AP progressive and encountering a problem I haven't seen before.

My load data:
Brass - mixed
Bullet - 9mm 130 grain coated from Black and Blue Bullets
Primers - Federal Standard Small Pistol
Powder - 5.2 grains HS-6
Setting of COL is set at 1.120", but ranges from 1.115 to 1.133 on actual output
Taper-crimped to 0.375", no crimping with Hornady crimp-seating die

Firearm: Springfield XD(m) 5.25" 9mm

Dies in the press (all Hornady):
  1. Sizing Die
  2. Expander Die
  3. Powder Drop
  4. Seating Die
  5. Taper Crimp Die

I loaded 100 rounds yesterday several wouldn't fire. When they were loaded by the slide into the barrel, they would jam, not entering the barrel all the way. I would have to hold the slide with my left hand, and slam the grip with my right hand as hard as I could to dislodge and eject those rounds. (I only did this three times before I stopped.)

I took the barrel out of the pistol and checked the rounds, and noticed that the ones that wouldn't fire didn't seat completely into the barrel. Going through the rounds I still hadn't fired of the 100, almost 20 wouldn't seat in the barrel, apparently bulging.

Back at my bench, I checked sizing of these rounds. Here is what I found:

Rounds that WOULD fire
  • OAL varied from 1.116" to 1.131"
  • Width of the casing at its largest ranged from .387" to 3.89"

Rounds that WOULDN'T load
  • OAL varied from 1.127" to 1.134"
  • Width of the casing at its largest ranged from .389" to .397" with most between .389" to .393"

I pulled the bullets on the bad loads and measured these at the base, but they didn't differ from the bullets that would load, running .356" or .357".

Here is the image of what the rounds looked like that worked:
XD-1.jpg


Here are some images of three of the bad loads:
XD-4.jpg


XD-3.jpg


XD-2.jpg


So, to sum it up, I am baffled as to why these are bulged. They all went completely into the sizing die (at least that is my assumption) and I haven't ever had this problem with my single-stage press. Please note that I am not blaming it on the AP press, but just want to figure this out.

Thanks for any ideas,
Tony C.
Newberg, OR
 
Last edited:
I don't know but I'll start with 3.2gr of HS-6 seems like a very low charge . the lowest I find is 4.6gr .

Do you have the auto bullet feeder . I've not been loading 9mm very long but noticed I get the most noticeable bulge when the bullet is not placed in the mouth very straight .

Not sure what the profile/shape of the bullet is but your OAL at 1.127+ may be to long . I'd add .015 swing seems like a lot to me but again I don't know a lot about the bullet it self .
 
Flaring - IF your flaring the brass at the powder drop die too much, it can squat the case causing a slight bulge at the base of the brass.

Crimp - IF your crimp is too light then the lip of the brass can drag in the chamber. IF the crimp is too heavy it can cause a slight bulge below the lip.

OAL - I'm guessing your OAL is correct for that bullet if your having most of your rounds feed.

BULLET PROFILE - I use to have a Lee 45 acp mold that casted a bulbous round nose profile that basically was a little fat about half way down the nose and caused the exact problem your having. I ended throwing the mold in a drawer and purchased a Lyman. Problem suddenly went away using the Lyman bullet. Turned out the Fat Lee bullet was causing a problem in the chamber of my SIG 1911.

The thing to keep in mind is if your flaring is too heavy it's bulging the brass AFTER you've already sized thus the reason the brass is tight.

After all this that's when I finally invested into the Wilson Max Cartridge Gages in all the pistol calibers I load for. No problems since because I always check with them at the beginning of every loading session. Theses gages are very helpful setting up dies.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/888465/le-wilson-max-cartridge-gage-9mm-luger?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Since we're not there it's hard to venture exactly what's happening there but there's a couple of things to consider.
 
Last edited:
I have to agree with these fellas. I also believe if a crimp is mandatory, you are potentially over flaring your bullets. Since we all have our ways of doing things, I'm going to tell you why I feel this way. And, I'm not suggesting it is for everyone. Just me

First, I'd check and see if the ones that won't chamber were the same head stamp. If they were, there's the problem. But, once again, it is still a case problem caused by over flaring. So, you are over flaring all yur cases if that it the situation.

When you set the flare die up, it should just start to accept the bullet well enough to allow you to set the bullet basically square before seating. I want it to set into the brass just far enough to be level. I allow the bullet to bulge the case when I seat it. I shoot a powder coated bullet that has a Brinell hardness of 18. So, it does it well with no shaving or distortion

As far as crimping, I don't. Crimping isn't needed in any of my semi auto pistols. So, it isn't just the chamber on the 9MM. So, you basically have to determine the problem and, fix it based on your situation. This is a great argument for shooting hard cast bullets btw.

Flare it just enough to allow the bullet to enter the case, seat one, measure and try it. I think if you do this the crimp can be all but, if not eliminated and, your problem will be addressed. God Bless
 
Last edited:
If I'm reading your post correctly:

You have no problems when using a single stage press, using the
same dies?

I suspect that you need to set your sizing die down a quarter turn or so.
You aren't getting the casings sized down far enough. I set my Dillon
(using a EGW undersize sizing die) down to where i feel the handle
bump and cam over when the ram is all the way up. Solid contact between
the shell plate and sizing die.
 
Where to start....

I went to the Black and Blue Company web site. They don't sell 130 grain, 9mm coated bullets. They do however sell 135 grain coated bullets. Sir, you must know every aspect of your round, lest you put yourself at extreme risk.

I find no published data nor does the Hodgon web site provide data for HS-6 and a 135 grain lead cast bullet. So, on Monday, please contact Black and Blue and ask them for data. They "should" be able to provide you a quantity of grains for min and max (could find no information posted on their web site, which is unfortunate because the grain is not common). Please start at minimum and work your way up slowly. Also, please make sure you ask for OAL. (Metal God was right on his analysis by the way as it pertained to powder grains, makes no sense at all.)

Let's talk about process. Straight-shooter made some good points and WVMountaineer is on track as well. Each case manufacturer produces brass that does not equal the graphics you see in manuals. Test this point, select a number of head stamps and measure the length. Not uniform, which means your OAL will not be uniform. As noted, if you over or under-flare your case mouth this can cause issues with OAL. A crimp is not necessary for 9mm. The neck tension alone will be enough to hold your bullet in place. You should note however that when you do crimp, it is not unusual for the bullet to move upward, extending the length. You would need to place the round back into the press, move the seating die back into position and push the bullet back into place to achieve your targeted OAL. Occasionally I will use a crimp die to resolve an over-expanded case. I usually have to go back to the seating die to bring the OAL back down.

Looking at your pictures, the first appears to be perfect, having the base of the case line up with the top of the barrel. When you achieve this, i.e. pass the "plunk test" you should be good to go. BUT, measure your round with your caliper, always, i.e. double check your work. For every round I produce I measure with the caliper and do the plunk test, sometimes multiple times. Looking at your later pictures, when the base of the case exceeds the top of the barrel, that's a no-go. You have to fix the round before you can even consider dropping it into you storage box for a trip to the range.

Also, cast bullets can shave coating and/or lead when being pressed into the case. You must remove any excess (usually forms a ring around the mouth of the case) otherwise the round will not fit into your barrel. It is possible you are experiencing this issue. You obviously don't experience this with a jacketed round.

With due respect to straight-shooter on one point, a case gauge is not necessary for 9mm. Why? Because your barrel IS your case gauge. The pictures you posted clearly demonstrate a pass and a fail scenario. You'll gain nothing more from a case gauge that you don't already see in your pictures. (this is true for your pistol, story changes when you move to rifle)

Every gun is unique when it comes to OAL. You have already determined you guns' uniqueness when it comes to a cast lead, round nose bullet. It's OAL is between 1.116 and 1.131. You don't leave your bench until you achieve this range AND pass the plunk test. Make a note in your manual as well and look at it each time you sit down to load so you know where you must land. It isn't necessary to hit a single value OAL, just be inside the established safe OAL range and you're ok to go. I would suggest you stay away from Max load scenarios until you get this down and become comfortable with the OAL and you successfully discharge a fair number of rounds.

I'm not trying to berate you here sir. I want you to succeed in this endeavor. I simply want you to be able to walk through the process and recognize when you have a problem and to solve it at your bench, the safest place in the world. Out on the range is obviously the most dangerous place in the world and you don't need those problems in your life.

Good luck. Be safe.
 
Last edited:
Very good write up Mark. Very well written and to the point on all accounts. I forgot about mentioning not having enough flare and shaving the lead. Which indeed will cause a build up under the brass at the lip and cause problems.

I only recently moved to using Max case gages only because I got tired of taking the guns down and using the barrel. The barrel is certainly a great method and is proof in the pudding. Only thing I would like to touch on is I found that my H&K VP9 has the tightest chamber of all of my 9mm's so I always opted to use that particular barrel because if the round fit that barrel it would fit them all. Just something to consider when using barrels from several guns.
 
Please let me clarify...

Thanks all for your input.

Yes, I know the rounds I am using. The 130 grain was a typo. I have loaded and fired well in excess of 1,000 rounds of these 135 grain round nose bullets with this powder load in my single-stage press without a hiccup. The 5.2 grains of HS-6 gives me a very accurate round at just over minor power factor for USPSA, chronographing right around 1,070 fps. The powder burns well.

I will check both the belling to see if it can be expanded less, and check the sizing die. My guess is that it lies within one of these. Though I don't think I have shavings there, I will double check that also.

Tony
 
For a handful of years... I made terrific 9mm ammo UNTIL I got a new pistol with the absolute tightest chamber I have still yet come across... and I pulled some hair out before I isolated the problem and corrected it.

I would suggest you look at exactly what your press is doing at each stage, taking bullets and powder -OUT- of the equation first, and ensuring that it is manipulating brass in a way that your pistol likes and accepts.

First... I would certainly be sorting brass. But it's not "the" answer as many folks don't and they still make decent ammo.

Next, I would run MANY thru simply the sizing die, just as the press sizes them and without further work-- chamber check ALL of that brass. You need to see ZERO red flags-- ensure that your sizing die and it's interaction with your shell plate is such that they are getting sized down.

Next, see how much actual case mouth flare your dies/press are doing. Less is more. Maybe a bit more with a lead slug than jacketed, but NOT MUCH.

Then, run FLARED cases through bullet seating die with no bullet, resulting in brass that once again MUST chamber check-- easily, drop in/drop out.

Only after you have ensured that your basic die settings are right is it time to figure out if the bullet is causing the failure to properly seat/chamber.
 
Your 4 pics show the base of the shell riding over the hood, especially pics 2-4. The shell base needs to be even with the hood. You need to do the "plunk test". It appears your COL is too long for your gun barrel. The pics easily show this. And do a light taper crimp. What shape bullet are you using?
 
I'm pretty sure that said 3.2 before . was that a typo as well ?

Metal, yes, I had incorrectly typed 3.2 instead of 5.2. Thanks for catching it.

It appears your COL is too long for your gun barrel.

NevadaBob, it shouldn't be. I have my die set to 1.120 and successfully chamber and fire OAL from 1.115 to 1.130. As you will note,from my OP, while the OAL of the non-functioning rounds were a little longer, most were within what I have loaded and fired.

Only after you have ensured that your basic die settings are right is it time to figure out if the bullet is causing the failure to properly seat/chamber.

Sevens, thank you. I will go through these paces tomorrow and see what the results are.
 
I have the same gun and the same press. I use a Wilson case gauge on every round. The chamber is a bit larger than the gauge, so if the round isn't fitting, the problem is worse than I've had.

First, your OAL is fine and not the problem. My OAL varies as much as yours.
Second, it has nothing to do with the powder, of course.

The issue is either the crimp or a bulge, but if your crimp is .375, than the crimp isn't the problem. I've had cases that are too large near the base after completion. I always sort by headstamp and found that some HS have a higher percentage of bulges than others. Other HS have less than the average. Speer and Blazer are the best. FC is good, too. CBC and Aguila are worse than average. I did notice that cases that fit the case gauge after resizing did not fit when finished.

I suggest you sort by HS. It's work at first, but once they are sorted you can keep them that way. Sorting will help you diagnose problems.

I also suggest that you get a Lee Factory Crimp die (not a Bulge Buster). This will likely fix the problem almost all of the time. A slight burr can also cause a problem, but those can be sanded with 400 or 600 grit sandpaper. A couple of twists of the round in a sandpaper "tube" will take care of that.
 
I'm in the sizing die camp. But oval would be easy to check, take one of the rounds that does not chamber and seat it deeper by .040 or so (only as a test, do not fire) and see if it chambers. Then take the round apart and with no bullet see if the case chambers. Then you'll know if it is a sizing or oval issue. Make sure you are not short stroking the press, seems like a lot of variation in oval.
 
I also suggest that you get a Lee Factory Crimp die (not a Bulge Buster). This will likely fix the problem almost all of the time.

GJ, I'm using a Hornady taper crimp die now and with my single stage press I didn't have any issues. I will get that Wilson Case Gage as a double check. Also, thanks for the confirmation on the OAL.
 
I just had a thought. Since cases are not all the same length, I wonder if this would cause belling to exert more force on longer cases making them bulge. As a test you could measure some cases and see if it's the longer ones that bulge. Of course this doesn't really help solve the problem unless you want to bell less.

BTW, the SAAMI spec for 9mm OAL is 1.0" min to 1.16" max. When I plunk tested my 147 gr FMJ-TC I could go as long as 1.15 before the bullet touched the rifling (same barrel as yours). Even though your bullet is shaped differently, that's a lot of leeway for your 1.127.
 
Tony C ...have you done the plunk test? You haven't mentioned doing it...not to be rude...do you know what the plunk test is?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top