Please can you EXPLAIN the logic

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EdInk

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Please I explain why I can buy an S&W M&P9 that holds 17+1 rds and has about a 6-7lb trigger with absolutely no kind of safety BUT if I want a 5-6rd revolver with a 8-10lb trigger pull it has to have the Infernal Lock on it?

It's not hard to remove it but seriously if I'm safe enough with a higher capacity lighter trigger pull semi-auto then why not a low capiacity wheelgun with a heavier trigger?
 
I'm a S&W Fan, but I won't buy a new S&W. I got one of their scandium guns with the infernal lock, and I won't buy another. What a great way to screw up such a time honored piece of history.
 
I have had S&Ws for years and had great luck with them being wonderful guns. I just recently bought my mom a 637 this is the first one with a lock I bought (also first to remove) and will be getting my fiancé an M&P (w/pink backstraps that she liked sometime down the road), I prefer my XD but it's what she wants for herself.

I just thought it was ironic that the revolver has a lock and the semi does not have it. Also, will be getting a 629 for myself sometime in the next year or two (it's low on the gun priority list) and prefer to buy new guns because the used ones that are in good condition aren't that much cheaper around here than a brand new one.
 
Smith & Wesson background; security locks, US market...

I don't know all the details but to my limited understanding, S&W was purchased by a AZ based firm called Safe-T-Lock about 10-12 years ago for about $14mil.
The company execs and the legal eagles decided to merge the "security lock" designs into the S&W revolver line back when many state AG offices & big city politicos were huffing and/or puffing about gun company lawsuits or requirements to make handguns; "safer". This has since gone up in smoke in most of the US. In the post 9-11 world, more citizens & LE/public safety wanted weapons not new BS gun laws. Many states & AGs pushed new laws saying you could not sue gun factories or the FFL shops.
Major firms like Smith and Wesson & Taurus still have security locks on revolvers. Why, I do not know. I'd offer at least a few models w/o it. I'd read a few items of S&W and Taurus magnum revolvers having serious problems or misfires. :(
I know S&W is a major, publicly traded company now worth hundreds of millions because of the LE/military contracts. I also know they had a CEO who was quickly released after it was known he had a criminal background(armed robbery, assault on a sworn LEO in the 1950s). A few J frames a few 686/629 or classic models w/o the "lawyer locks" would be good. ;)
 
Internal locks are a band-aid / feel good / PC accessory

I detest the locks on S&W revolvers :barf:; like has been pointed out, not all S&W semi-autos have them...1911. Hypocracy.

I don't like them (internal lock) on Taurus either. I wouldn't buy a Taurus due to the lock, but my wife bought me a 709 (surprise gift). Hopefully, if I never engage it (the lock) it will remain resistant to moving and not accidently engage at an inopportune time.
Dang the 709 for being likeable / useful, now I want a 740 when they come out. :o
 
Make sure that you have a sufficient number of pre-ban knives. According to some, only chefs should be allowed to possess them:eek:, all others should eat with sporks and chop sticks.:D
 
I'm almost certain that I read about an impending British ban on pointed kitchen knives. No kidding; they don't want people to have pointed knives over there. Amazing.
 
Why?

Simple.

Because it was a stupid idea with no merit, it was politically driven, and the only reason for it's existence was because it made a good impression.

Once that good impression was made, the game was won.

So, locks were integrated into the design of revolvers because it required only a minor alteration. They were sufficiently high profile to use as a demonstration and example of how serious the company is about safety; the impression was made.

On the other hand, by doing it to mostly revolvers, they managed to mostly interfere with civilian weapons, and not interfere with the professional large market users, such as the police chief who is going to be ordering 1,000 units, and has concerns about whether that lock will cost an officer his life, and hence cause him a headache.

Politically driven ideas, such as this one, don't have to make sense or be rational at any level of implementation. As long as someone has something to gain, they will create a lie, and BS their way through that lie, manipulate markets and laws, and in the long run, maybe even create a harmful situation. But as long as they get what they wanted and they got away with it, they still won.

That is why some have locks, and others don't. The liars convinced the public it would work, they then did it to enough units to make a noticeable difference and passed the costs on to the shooters, and kicked back in their executive chairs and basked in the adulation and newly gained respect of the public, because they are people of vision and integrity.
 
There was no logic as we know it,,,

<Rant>

It was simply an appeasement factor from one company who wanted to sell/use their product,,,
They owned Smith & Wesson so they could mandate the use of a product their other company sold.

Also it was an appeasement to the Clinton administration who basically said, "give us this or we will put further pressure on you as a manufacturer of handguns."

The only logic was that of the anti-gun crowd saying "this is another small step towards the ultimate goal of total banishment of handgun ownership in the U.S."

It was a solution to a problem that never existed in the first place.

</Rant>
 
Since the takeover by the lock company saved SW's bacon and now we have many new and exciting guns - I guess they were a smart company from a business sense.

I don't think we need an SW rant-fest. The history of the decision is easy to find.

Don't buy a gun with a lock if you don't want. SW is moving away from them in some models.

Let the marketplace decide.

Closed.
 
Short history lesson, from a personal point of view...

Several posters got it basically right, but either didn't know, or left out some important details. In a nutshell, here's why some models have locks, and some don't.

Thank the Clinton administration, some British gentlemen, Safe-t-Lock, and of course, all the usual suspects in the anti gun movement.

As was said, back during the Clinton administration, several big city mayors (with the administration's tacit approval) were pushing to sue gun makers, supposedly to recover some of the "expense" from gun violence in their cities. This was a very real threat to the industry, because unlike their media image of giant coporations with huge profits and bottomless pockets, the reality is even the biggest names in US gun manufacture are not really large companies. Their profits are not what the media makes them out to be. So, even if eventually found blameless, the cost of defending themselves in court, constantly, for who knew how long, could be ruinous.

And, really, thats what the big city mayors and other anti gunners wanted all a long. Now along comes the Clinton administration's "voluntary agreement". This is full of promises (many of which which are lies), and a host of "safety improvements" (restictions) covering gun manufacture and sales policy.

Some of these (but by no means all) were built in locks, loaded chamber indicators, serial # in hidden locations, etc. for all new models and where possible, redesign to include them in all models. Among the sales restrictions was language to prohibit anyone under 21 from being in the part of the store where handguns were sold. And, of course penalties like prohibiting a maker from doing business with a dealer who did not follow the new restrictions, etc. There was a lot more, but I think you get the drift.

Now, what they offered gun makers for complying with this "voluntary agreement" was protection from the lawsuits being sought by the mayors, and (in the case of S&W) preferential treatment in future Federal arms contracts (something they could not legally do, in short, a LIE)

Enter the "British gentleman". At this time, S&W was owned by a British holding company (Tompkins LTD, IIRC), and they decided the best thing for their business was to accept the Clinton's agreement.

The people working at S&W didn't have any choice. Their owners agreent to it, and they were stuck. So they set about designing locks into some models of the guns, and hoping for the best.

What happened then wasn't the "best" but it could have been worse. US, we, the S&W gun buying public went, well...ballistic. S&W was the only US gunmaker to enter into the Clinton's BS agreement. We saw it as a betrayal, and reacted accordingly. S&W sales fell. We talked boycott (and did it) in every way we could. S&W stock tanked, and the British owners wound up selling S&W for a loss!

Now, note that other US gun makers began putting the "Clinton approved features" in some of their guns (like Ruger did in its Mk III .22 pistol), but they never joined the "agreement", they just did it as a marketing stategy. By not joining the Clinton's agreement, the buying public didn't see them as betraying our rights, and they didn't get boycotted.

S&W get bought by the company that invented the lock, so, naturally, they keep the lock in those models. Over time, our attitude softens, and we go back to buying S&Ws (general buying public, I still know a lot of people, myself included, that won't buy a S&W with a lock) their stock comes back a bit, and S&W marches on.

Guns like the M&P auto, their 1911 and some others don't have locks because either they weren't in production at the time, or S&W didn't get around to putting locks in them, when there were under orders to do so. Adding a lock to a gun design costs money. So does removing it. With the economy and sales being what they are, all companies tend to avoid doing things that cost them money that they don't absolutely need to spend.

We are seeing some "new" models being made with without locks. New designs (autos mostly) may have a lock, but its not a freakin' IN YOUR FACE hole in the side of a revolver that for generations before never had one there.

They don't scream out "Hey, look!, I'm PC!", or "I'll do what ever the anti gunners want, as long as they let me sell some of my products":barf:

Locks on guns are a stupid, useless, feel good solution to a non existant problem, forced on us by the nanny state mentality. Locks on unloaded guns serve no purpose at all, except possibly keeping you from loading and using a gun when you need it desperately, and don't have the key available. Locks on loaded guns are just flat dangerous (if external, like a trigger lock), and pose a potential risk of rendering the gun inoperable when you need it, for internal ones. The solution is, and always has been, lock the gun up in something (if you have a concern). Do the same with the ammo.

The emotional argument of a child getting your gun and shooting themself or someone else by accident cannot, will not, and does not happen if you lock up the gun and/or lock up the ammuntion in secure storage.

But because many people simply do not follow these basic safety precautions, we get force fed internal locks. S&W chose the stupidest manner possible for its lock placement. It was guaranteed to upset us as much as could be. Other makers now include locks on some of their models, but they are discreet.

Looking back on it, putting the lock "in your face" might actually have been a smart move for S&W, a gamble, but one they managed to survive. It upset us enough to nearly drive them out of business, but, it got them out from under British ownership, and with the rest of the gun industry seeing what we did to S&W for joining the Clinton agreement, it made sure that even if they had been considering it, they were not going to!

I think, over time, we will see more models without locks (revolvers, anyway), because that is what most of the buying public wants. If you want a lock in your gun, they will sell you one. IF you don't, (eventually, I believe) they will sell you one of those, too. As long as the govt doesn't meddle (again), I think eventually this will happen. When it does, I'll go back to buying new S&W revolvers. Till then, I'll buy the older ones, that I can count on. Its a personal thing, but hey, evey gun I buy is a personal thing!

I got one of the Rugers (new Vaquero) with a lock. No issues with it. Can't see it, won't EVER use it, I just pretend its not there. Can't do that with a S&W with a keyhole in the side of it!
 
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