placing a weapon in battery
- Thread starter fc286
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sigcurious
New member
false. The term cocked and locked refers to a firearm with the hammer in the ready to fire position, ie cocked, and the safety on, ie locked. The term is usually applied to 1911 type pistols or other SA pistols.
Cocked and locked may also be referred to as condition 1.
Cocked and locked may also be referred to as condition 1.
Hmm, I gotta say "true" on that one. When a firearm or artillery unit is in-battery, the round chambered, bolt or breech is secured, and the unit is ready to be fired, thus figure "cocked and Locked".
Adversely, when you hear of a round being fired out-of-battery, that means the round was at least partially chambered and it went off before it was fully secured by a bolt or breech allowing all sorts of hot gasses, smoke, mayhem, evils, and destructive stuff to escape.
Adversely, when you hear of a round being fired out-of-battery, that means the round was at least partially chambered and it went off before it was fully secured by a bolt or breech allowing all sorts of hot gasses, smoke, mayhem, evils, and destructive stuff to escape.
This is one of them 'and-or-if-maybe' semantics kinda deals. The two terms referred to can be broken down into two separate, and independent elements... in some cases.
You can have a gun in battery (a round in the chamber) and it is neither cocked nor locked. For example, the DA/SA revolver or a 1911 with hammer down and safety off... etc etc.
You can have a gun cocked and locked, with no round in the chamber... dumb and useless, but you can do it.
Pre-cocked striker fired guns like Glock. If there's a loaded magazine in the gun and you rack the slide... now you have a trifecta. In battery and (semi)cocked, with the passive and active safeties functioning as the locked component.
Cheers,
C
You can have a gun in battery (a round in the chamber) and it is neither cocked nor locked. For example, the DA/SA revolver or a 1911 with hammer down and safety off... etc etc.
You can have a gun cocked and locked, with no round in the chamber... dumb and useless, but you can do it.
Pre-cocked striker fired guns like Glock. If there's a loaded magazine in the gun and you rack the slide... now you have a trifecta. In battery and (semi)cocked, with the passive and active safeties functioning as the locked component.
Cheers,
C
weapon in battery
Creeper you are the closest - However lets reference not an SA or a .45 lets say a over/under okay?
what if you place two shells in it and its LOCKED (closed breach) but the weapon which is supposed to be cocked also does not fire - would you therefore say it is locked but not cocked in essence not in battery
Creeper you are the closest - However lets reference not an SA or a .45 lets say a over/under okay?
what if you place two shells in it and its LOCKED (closed breach) but the weapon which is supposed to be cocked also does not fire - would you therefore say it is locked but not cocked in essence not in battery
Mmmmm... traditionally, a round in the breach is "in battery". A firearms controls determine the cocked and locked aspects.
If it's an O/U shotgun, it was cocked when you opened the breach to load your shells. That would make it in battery and cocked... and you can't un-cock it, you can only put it on safe, or off safe, or fire it.
I'm out.
C
If it's an O/U shotgun, it was cocked when you opened the breach to load your shells. That would make it in battery and cocked... and you can't un-cock it, you can only put it on safe, or off safe, or fire it.
I'm out.
C
Military terminology seldom applies to civilian life very easily. IE: the term "defilade" is used over and over again in the opening horrific scenes of "Saving Private Ryan". I don't know if this was to make a point or what. The obvious meaning in the movie was in the tense of a noun, a "ditch, gully, trough, drainage", or whatever else you would call a natural shallow trench in a field preventing fire from the enemy. I looked in my family dictionary beside my desk. Zilch. It goes straight from "defiance" to "defile". You have to use the Internet or Meriam Webster's version for references. My thesaurus is useless these days. The same applies for the term "battery". Large guns must physically move a giant breech block or other locking device to be in a firing position. The fact that a live load is already in place is obviously assumed. My question is, "Why do I want my friends to hear me saying that in the first place?"
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sigcurious
New member
While parts of this may be semantic. If someone can find a credible, reference to cocked and locked outside of referring to a pistol in condition 1, I'd like to see it.
While I don't argue that semantically the phrase could be applied to various situations, what does it mean to most people when they hear it or as it used commonly would seem more applicable.
While I don't argue that semantically the phrase could be applied to various situations, what does it mean to most people when they hear it or as it used commonly would seem more applicable.
Well at least I have gotten some responses but based on my background of this terminology I dont believe I've received the correct reponse. This is because as I have demonstrated that when a weapon is placed in battery the weapon is ready to fire when trigger is pulled. As I have said in the case of the O/U the weapon was loaded/locked but did not fire so the answer I am looking for is still would this weapon be considered in battery and/or cocked and locked. Clearly the weapon is locked but did not cock upon closing or in opening of breach therefore it is rendered useless to fire as it is not in battery merely locked.
Then I guess I'm wither missing something or a whole bunch of somethings. That O/U you're refering to IS cocked when it was opened to put the shells inside- in essence- it's 'in-battery' even if all one has to do is manipulate the safety in one direction or anuther and pull a trigger or two.
I still maintain that in the military sense (at least) that when a cartridge in in the chamber as it should be and the bolt, breech, slide or whatever is in the place it was designed to be in upon firing- the weapon is in-batter regardless of any safety feature, lanyard grasping, control room okie-dokie-mentation, pre-staging, or anything. It's all about where the ctg is and what's behind it.
If you're not getting the right answers from us, if and when you get the right answer- please come back and let us in on it.
I still maintain that in the military sense (at least) that when a cartridge in in the chamber as it should be and the bolt, breech, slide or whatever is in the place it was designed to be in upon firing- the weapon is in-batter regardless of any safety feature, lanyard grasping, control room okie-dokie-mentation, pre-staging, or anything. It's all about where the ctg is and what's behind it.
If you're not getting the right answers from us, if and when you get the right answer- please come back and let us in on it.
oneshot onekill
New member
In "battery" is the condition of the round...
"Cocked and Locked" is the condition of the weapon...
The two are not the same.
"Cocked and Locked" is the condition of the weapon...
The two are not the same.
madcratebuilder
New member
oneshot onekill said:
This.
I learned to use the term as applied to artillery, while working for my Uncle. My appreciation of the term refers to a gun that is operating normally, is locked and ready for firing, whether or not ammunition is present. The barrel is forward in the recoil device, the breechblock is locked, and all mechanical indicators show that the gun may be fired.
The obverse is out-of-battery, where some mechanical condition exists to render the gun inoperable. I've never heard the term used where ammunition was required as part of the definition.
The obverse is out-of-battery, where some mechanical condition exists to render the gun inoperable. I've never heard the term used where ammunition was required as part of the definition.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
fc286 said:
Are you looking for the answer you want, or the correct one?
Placing a weapon "in battery" has nothing to do with the original/traditional meaning of the term cocked and locked.
Cocked and locked refers to ONE thing, the condition of a single action handgun with the hammer cocked and the safety engaged.
The term may have been co-opted by people to refer to other things, because it "sounds cool", essentially, but it only has one real meaning.
It doesnt even make sense in some of the situations mentioned. It certainly has nothing to do with being in battery, except that a handgun that is cocked and locked is, by definition, "in battery" but it could just as easily be in battery and unlocked, or uncocked, or both.
My understanding of the expression is this: In small arms, it applies to semi- and fully automatic weapons. There is usually a part in pistols, at least, that prevents both full auto fire (maybe) and firing with the breech not fully closed (for sure). That part is called the disconnector. Naturally the breech has to be closed for safety's sake upon firing.
If the slide or the barrel (or both) of an automatic pistol is pushed back, it should not fire, though I don't know what the critical distance is. If it's back, it's said to be "out of battery." The same expression could be said of an artillery piece that is either not emplaced or otherwise set up for firing or, with some older guns, the tube is disconnected from the recoil mechanism and moved to the rear for travelling purposes. That was done even before recoil mechanisms existed. In modern guns, the recoil mechanism also "returns the gun to battery."
I suppose the same conditions apply to other firearms but I've not seen the expression used for anything else, even though the very same conditions are there, sort of. In fact, the M16 was even given a built-in device that is still there to assist in making the bolt go forward "into battery," though again, I've never read of anyone actually using it for that purpose. I suppose the manual says that's the first step in applying "immediate action."
Now with an automatic, if it doesn't go into battery, you could hit the back of the slide (but not the hammer). That probably isn't recommended and I don't think I've seen it in any manual, all of which probably assumes away that problem. Perhaps others here could elaborate on that point.
If the slide or the barrel (or both) of an automatic pistol is pushed back, it should not fire, though I don't know what the critical distance is. If it's back, it's said to be "out of battery." The same expression could be said of an artillery piece that is either not emplaced or otherwise set up for firing or, with some older guns, the tube is disconnected from the recoil mechanism and moved to the rear for travelling purposes. That was done even before recoil mechanisms existed. In modern guns, the recoil mechanism also "returns the gun to battery."
I suppose the same conditions apply to other firearms but I've not seen the expression used for anything else, even though the very same conditions are there, sort of. In fact, the M16 was even given a built-in device that is still there to assist in making the bolt go forward "into battery," though again, I've never read of anyone actually using it for that purpose. I suppose the manual says that's the first step in applying "immediate action."
Now with an automatic, if it doesn't go into battery, you could hit the back of the slide (but not the hammer). That probably isn't recommended and I don't think I've seen it in any manual, all of which probably assumes away that problem. Perhaps others here could elaborate on that point.
InigoMontoya
New member
Having never before heard this term (yet earning my living on a military gun range)....
In battery?
Where does one hear this term normally?
In battery?
Where does one hear this term normally?