Pistol loading , what am I looking for ?

M

Metal god

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So I went and shot my first hand gun loads , 45acp & 9mm . It went as good as it could go I guess . I worked up two different bullets ( berry's platted & Hornady HAP ) in 9mm and one in 45 ( Berry's platted ) In the 9mm the only difference was the bullet . Powder , cases & primers were all the same for each caliber .

Powders : Auto comp for 9mm / Longshot for 45acp

All loads cycled the guns and for the most part they all shot really well . I was sitting down with my hand/gun on a rest . Most loads shot a 1.5" five shot group at 25' . Some were 2" but that easily could have just been me .

I've been loading rifle for awhile now and that seems easy to figure what is working best . These handgun rounds all seemed to shoot well . so what am I looking for here . FWIW i did shoot over a chrono

I'm not the best handgun shooter so looking for accuracy is not likely the best way for me to know if they are shooting well . My issue with hand guns and really any iron sights is it only takes a few rounds and I have a VERY hard time keeping the front sight in focus . It gets blurry quick then turns into two front post and just not fun sometimes . I think that's why I like shooting rifles so much more .

Anyways what are you guys looking for that tells you " yea" that's the load ?

Does ES and SD really mean anything when shooting pistol ? I have a thought or two on this . 1) It appeared that the higher the charge was the lower my ES / SD was . Is that normal ? I had a few loads in both 9mm and 45 that had ES around 17 & SD around 8 . Is that an indicator that the powder is burning well ? Because I had a few that were in the ES 60 / SD 27 range . But can't those numbers be thrown off by how firmly I hold the gun from shot to shot ?

The 45 loads started getting snappy towards the higher charges and was throwing the brass almost 30' . When I noticed both things happening I stopped and did not try any heavier charges .

The 9mm rounds shot fine and the gun felt very controlled . I did how ever stopped about a few tenths short of max on those as well . Not because I noticed an issue but rather there were others that were shooting good and accurately . I felt there was no need to gain more velocity .

One of the reason I'm asking is I think I have a load for each that I'd like to start cranking out . Problem is I want to be sure I'm making the right choice . I'd like an idea as to what you all are looking for or do in load development . Either for range fun or competition accuracy . FWIW these loads will just be for range fun .
 
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After I've got the overall length set where I want it ...and ( say in 9mm) that round feeds 100% in all of my 9mm guns - no mag issues with feeding, etc. ( in my case a couple of 1911's a 4" and a 5", and a couple of different Sig Sauers...a single stack 239 and a full sized 226)...then I'm looking at :

a. how does the recoil feel...is it snappy or more of a thump ...and how does it feel in the lightest and shortest gun I have ( Sig 239 in my case ) or in the heaviest...( Sig 226 all stainless or a 5" all steel 1911 )...../ is the recoil movement of the gun typical with what I want ...so I can get back on target quickly..../ recoil is a function of the weight of the gun, the weight of the bullet and velocity primarily / but the point is, how does it feel in my hands...
( I never deviate from a published recipe min and max, to me, are sacred limits...and I have no interest in being an amateur chemist / or a test dummy ).../ If min is 4.5 gr and max is 4.8gr ...I would probably set a powder drop goal of 4.7gr / knowing my press will hold it right at 4.7 plus or minus less than 0.1gr....

b. In evaluating the accuracy ....I'll fire at a 3" dot off hand ...at 7, 8, 9 and 10 yds ( slow fire )....if I'm able to keep all of the rounds ( say 3 rounds at each distance inside that circle and ideally each hole touching another one...and no flyers...then the recipe, for that bullet, at that range is accurate..../ so that recipe is not giving me any variation ...because I knew my powder drops were right on the goal I set ( because I check weighed the test rounds meticulously).

c. I compare it to other loads ...maybe different powders, different weight of bullets ( in 9mm 115gr and 124 gr / all FMJ)

d. Did the powder meter real well...how consistent were the drops ( ideally I want a 0.1gr accuracy) ...so I tend to stay with some of the finer grain powders vs the bulkier ones...( in 9mm I really like Hodgdon TiteGroup ). If it didn't meter well...how bad was it / is there any risk of approaching the Min or Max as published.../ but if that powder can't hold 0.1gr tolerance, I'm looking for another powder...

So some of it is just experience ...and some of it is testable...if that makes any sense...

That's how I look at it...
 
Second what BigJim said. I stay inside of the book values, look at the chronograph data and try to get low ES and SD, then accuracy (off bags 15 - 25 yards), and feel. When I was younger I looked for the fastest velocity I could get and which powder would get me there (44 mag), but now I just want something that shoots good and has better accuracy than I do! I don't mind a little lower velocities - like on the 10mm you can get 1300-1350 with a 180 grain bullet, but 1200-1250 is fine with me and the powder last longer!!! I have pretty much settled on the Hornady HAP line of bullets for my .40 S&W, 10mm, and 45 ACP loads as they seem to give me better accuracy than the plated ones that I have tried...
 
Thanks that gives me more to consider .

How the powders measure : Autocomp is a great metering powder . I was able to throw it to with in .1gr pretty consistent . The longshot is a flake powder that did not meter well at all I think I was lucky to get it with in .3 each time and I believe there was a total of .5gr once from one to the next . That only happened once but did show it can happen . In all of these loads I through the charge close and trickled to get it perfect All the while using check weights . So I'm confident my loads were consistent . I can't be so sure though if I'm just going to throw them next time and is my the goal .

I do have multiple guns in the same calibers so that is a good point . Making sure they work in them all . I did check OAL doing a plunk test in all firearms of the same caliber . The reason was to be sure the round would fit in all the chambers of that caliber . I guess that brings up another question . When loading for rifle . The general rule is work up a load for each rifle don't just shoot load "A" from rifle "A" in rifle "B" . Is that as critical when loading for handguns ? The question is a to the general rule . I do understand that there is specific load data for certain firearms . Some Ruger revolvers come to mind .

In evaluating the accuracy
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Off hand would not be a good idea for me . Don't get me wrong I can shoot when I can see the front sight . I just can't see it all the time . I was thinking maybe I should shoot at a greater distance . That may show more of a difference from load to load .
 
The easy way to know when the most useful load has been arrived at is when the goals have been met.
And that will vary with each person.
To keep things simple, how about when the reloaded rounds feed as they should in the intended guns?
And when they have sufficient accuracy for the target size and distance?
Unless the velocity has to meet a prescribed minimum to meet a power factor, it's not really important.
Just as long as the gun works and the bullets are on target, put away the books and chronograph and start churning them out.
Reloading for handguns is mostly about making lots of low cost ammo to use, rather than the best that can be made.
Unless that's the goal.
So, it depends on what the real interest is - reloading to perfection or providing plenty of ammo for shooting.
 
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If you have issues seeing the front sight...then moving to a longer distance would be a mistake in my view...because it will probably increase your variation.

Rifles are notoriously finicky on ammo...different twist rates in barrels, etc..so finding the perfect combination or velocity and bullet weight are more critical in many rifles....but again it depends on what you're trying to do. If I have a nice bolt or lever action rifle..and just want to have fun with it - with open iron sights..at 25 yds or 50 yds or whatever...and I can still hit that 3" dot consistently that's all I need.
 
25', I read as 25 feet? If that's correct, then you have proven nothing for accuracy. 25 YARDS is where I shoot to test a load, before I will say it is accurate. As for seeing the sights, @69 Y.O., I have to contend with tri-focals, so I either see the front sight and have a blurry target, or a clear target with fuzzy front sight. No middle ground.

As for shooting position, I only test loads from a solid rest supporting my wrists with the pistol held only by my hands. Resting the front of the pistol on anything can affect the point of impact and group size.

You are right about extreme spread, and SD being small indicating getting a complete burn of the powder. It may not indicate the most accurate load though.

The longshot is a flake powder that did not meter well at all I think I was lucky to get it with in .3 each time and I believe there was a total of .5gr once from one to the next . That only happened once but did show it can happen .
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Longshot is a ball powder. It is actually a "flattened" ball powder. Made me go look to confirm this. It's my go-to powder for my 500 S&W. Mine meters quite well, but I'm using a hat-full compared to your charges.
 
I have to contend with tri-focals, so I either see the front sight and have a blurry target, or a clear target with fuzzy front sight. No middle ground.
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Try making up a pair of shooting glasses with two lenses.
One for the sights and the other for the target.
The brain will take it from there.
I've been using this method for many years and it really does work.
 
I have a couple of guns that are guaranteed by the mfg to give you 1" groups at 25 yds..../ and while they will do that ( not very often in my hands )...in my view, there is no reason why you can't test your reloads for consistency at much closer distances like 7 to 10 yds as I suggested earlier - unless you want to benchrest the gun....then 15, 20 or 25 yds might make some sense....
 
I became 'set' in my ways concerning reloading very early and have found tons of information on this site that I never even thought of:

That said, years and years ago I settled on Bullseye powder and 200 grain lead semi-wadcutters for .45 ACP target practice. And just enough powder to cycle the action reliably. Most of the folk I shot with used this so I did too.

Bullseye is kind of dirty and I have tried a few other loads but nothing has been any better than this combination.
 
Due to the component shortages, I use whatever powder there is on the shelf.
Can't say that there's really been a noticeable difference in accuracy loading a 200 grain swc at 850 f/s.
The usual powders are mostly 231, Titegroup, Clays, Unique, and such.
Maybe I'm just easily satisfied.
 
It's been along time since I have loaded for my pistols. Reading this makes me want to pick up my 1911 Colt 45 and get back into it. I have a few pistols but none feel and shoot like my Colt. I enjoyed the discussion.
 
I went ahead and loaded up 100rds of the 9mm Hornady HAP load I liked , if I remember right it"s 4.6gr Auto comp . I'll go shoot them in all guns of the same caliber and see how they do .

I ran into a problem/issue with the 45 loads and Longshot powder . Not so much the loads but what appears to be some sort of reaction inside the loaded case or I some how contaminated the load some how when loading . here is the thread I started about the issue .
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=563815
 
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