Pistol defense ammo that won't go next door

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PVerdieck

New member
Last week there was an incident where some punks were looting a neighbors toolshed in the complex, in the underground parking lot under the buildings. He was warned, came out with his .45 and put a few shots through the windows of their vehicle.

I was asking him what he used, and what was behind the car when he shot. I forget his answer, it was some frangible ammo.

That leads me to wonder what I should have for an incident around where I live. Currently I have Triton Quik-Shok and some CorBon, but these have a serious load.

What are the types of pistol ammo that are designed to break on impact so they don't have excessive overpenetration? The walls of my complex are plasterboard.
 
Check out Glaser Safety slugs. They are designed to destruct on impact with any surface. People have different opinions about their effectiveness.
 
The major brands of frangible ammo are:

Glaser

Magsafe

Bee Safe (loaded by CorBon)

They're all very similar: rounds firing a light, jacketed bullet containing small bits of lead shot instead of a solid lead core. The bullets travel at very high velocity and for this reason will not shoot to point of aim in most handguns. Typically a pack of 6 rounds sells for about $18.

By the way, another solution to the overpenetration problem is to use a shotgun loaded with small (#8 or #9) birdshot.
 
For those "I don't want to shoot thru a wall" events I use my small supply of the old .45 THUNDERZAP ammo as sold by Second Chance. A Teflon tm hollow point at a high rate of speed. Frank james did a report on the various rounds once and the TZ's shock blew the facing end off the "Fackler" water box. My 1911 functions just fine with the stuff.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
We had an old barn with some board walls and some walls with insulation and panelling or wallboard inside. I've tried the BeeSafes, the Glasers and the MagSafes. I found the Glasers to just keep going and going and going through as many as 4 board walls (then I ran out of walls and the Glasers were still going). The BeeSafes were nearly as bad. The MagSafes did the best but were inconsistent, even when I shot holes next to each other.

The only real solution I found is the shotgun loaded with shot from 6 to 9, the faster the better. At distances up to about 14 feet, modern ammo which all has a shot-cup now I think, acts like a slug. At some distance between 10 and 20 feet, depending on the load, the pellet wad sheds the shot cup and penetration lessens drastically. At distances where the shot-cup was still surrounding the pellets penetration was complete and slug like. Even three 1" thick oak boards were penetrated with a single neat hole at 10'. However once the load penetrated even one wall, and thus shed the shot cup, none of the loads penetrated a second wall.

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Talk is cheap; Free Speech is NOT.
 
along with the other loads mentioned triton makes some kind of fragmentable round i think called CQB or something like that. it basically turns into powder after penetrating some i think. for more info try their web site (sorry i forgot the address).

i don't really think its a great idea to carry fragmentable rounds since at times you need more penetration but for home defense they IMHO are a good idea. in my home defense gun (a beretta 92FS) i have 2 glasier blue tip safety slugs loaded in first and the rest are regular 115gr hollowpoints. this IMHO is a good idea for home defense since the glasiers won't penetrate that much and if i miss they won't go thru the walls. i hope that the fight will only require 1-2 shots anyway (although i really hope the fight never happens) and if it takes more than that the BG might take cover so then i'll need more penetration or if the first 2 rounds just don't penetrate enough then i'll have some more after that.

for carry i would just carry regular JHP but thats just me. glasiers have a great record for stopping people even though some people are secetical (just like the 9mm 115gr +P+: it works)

the triton quick-shocks you have are somewhat like fragmentable bullets since they split up into 3 separate pieces. they won't penetrate as much as a regualar JHP so if u load them along with your cor-bons you got a pretty deadly combo.
 
I think that "compressed dust" training rounds fit your requirements...and are likely to be very ineffectice.

Does anyone make jacketed aluminum or plastic bullets?
 
Gun Tests did frangible ammo tests a while back. They were amazed when all of them penetrated multiple layers of wall board.

Given the miserable performance of frangibles, and the fact that they do not limit penetration of structural materials, are extremely expensive, and don't shoot to point of aim, why bother? Walt
 
BTW; the moron who shot at the vehicle of some kids who were allegedly engaged in petty theft would probably go to jail if the police showed up. If he hit one of the kids, he would stay there.

He had no legal or moral right to shoot.

Walt
 
Walt is right. I dont know about other states but in California, you cant shoot someone unless they pose serious physical threat to you, or something like that, maybe if he had just called the police...
 
Along this line, years ago, I saw a survivalist magazine article that detailed how to make your own flechette revolver rounds. They would use the caliber specific plastic cups in which they would place cut up peices(About one inch long) of brass brazing rod used in metal work. The smaller the rod the more you of em you can fit into the cup. They had experimented with several loadings and printed some recommendations. They showed how the brass flechettes would not penetrate a wall but totaly destroyed tissue at close range. Flechettes are really nasty things to be shot with cause they may hit you head on, they may hit you side ways. Because of the realitively soft metal and cylindrical shape they may hit you in the leg like six tiny arrows and one may come out the back of your leg, one out the foot, one out the shoulder, well you get the picture. I may still have that old mag in the DDTarchives(junk in extra room)if anyone is interested in more info.

Well, I agree the shootimg was unjustifiable if we have heard the whole story here(sort of). As it worked out, it was one property crime for another property crime. Crooks broke and stole property and the old man shot holes in property. Eye for an Eye.

On the flip side, when the criminals I have encountered find a source of goodies, they will be back. I can only guess that after being nearly killed for trying to boost some tools they won't be back anytime soon.

As for safe Ammo. Friends of mine lived in a fishing cabin that had a mouse problem. We would take the lead out of .22 rounds and replaced it with rubber erasers that we cut to shape with x-acto knives. You could shoot through one side of an aluminum can from across the room but not both sides. Hard on mice, easy on the cabin. Afterward,the barrel would have to be seriously cleaned before firing any real ammo though. Maybe we could make our own "wall safe ammo" at home with a little creativity and a natural tendency to increase entropy in the universe. -ddt
 
I agree with Russell92: I keep 2 Glasers at the top of the magazines of my .45 and my .380, and fill the rest with the most serious hollowpoints that reliably feed.

As for overpenetration with Glasers, I can tell you that they wouldn't go all the way through a 27" TV some guy brought to the "public range" one day.
 
I don't know that fletchettes are illegal, but the press would have a field day crucifying the guy who used them.

FWIW, I ran (limited) tests a few years ago and decided the plain old .45 FMJ was about as likely to stop as anything, even Glasers. I didn't try the more modern fangible loads, because I didn't have them. In a revolver, I liked the shot loads for not overpenetrating, but doubted their effectiveness.

Now, some people say the least penetrating is an AR15 firing 5.56 mm FMJ, which to me means that either they are wrong or we are issuing the wrong rifle to our troops.

Jim
 
Walt and MrBlonde, PVerdieck is from Houston, Tx judging by his profile and if the incident he spoke of occurred in Texas and happened at night, it is perfectly legal to use lethal force to prevent 'theft in the nighttime', 'arson, or 'criminal mischief in the nighttime', amoung a few other things. We have people (criminals) killed for stealing cars, hubcaps, lawnmowers, bicycles, and even over $2. It is the only state that permits the use of lethal force to protect personal property. The moral aspect of it is left up to the law abiding citizen, by committing a criminal act the prep surrenders his right to life. It ain't California. Texas, it's a whole other country.
 
Sorry, I didn't specify, but yes, it was at night. The police did show up later, he talked to them, and they essentially stated it wasn't the best thing to do, but that was all.

Texas does it allow it.

PC(Penal Code) 9.41
PROTECTION OF ONES OWN PROPERTY
a)... (deals with tresspassing)
b)A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossesion and:
1) the actor reasonably believed the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor, or
2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, thread or fraud against the actor.

9.42 DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY
A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
1)If justified under 9.41, and
2)when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
a) to prevent the other's imminent commision of arson, burglary, robbery, agg. robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime, or
b) to prevent the other who is fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, agg. robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the propertly and
3) he reasonably believed that
a) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means, or
b) the use of force other then deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

[This message has been edited by PVerdieck (edited March 27, 2000).]
 
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