I have a 21" stagecoach or messenger 12 gauge side-by-side, with Rabbit ear hammers. The patent is 488366, serial # is 146035, all parts of gun have the same serial #. It was mfg. on Dec. 20, 1892. It has a Damascus Barrell, and though the Barrell shows much usage, there is no rust and the Barrell is tight, hammers work fine, no cracks or breaks in the stock. Mfg. by Pioneer Arms C0. Can you help me on the value and if it is safe to fire.
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Pioneer Arms side-by-side
- Thread starter GeeCee
- Start date
I have a 21" stagecoach or messenger 12 gauge side-by-side, with Rabbit ear hammers. The patent is 488366, serial # is 146035, all parts of gun have the same serial #. It was mfg. on Dec. 20, 1892. It has a Damascus Barrell, and though the Barrell shows much usage, there is no rust and the Barrell is tight, hammers work fine, no cracks or breaks in the stock. Mfg. by Pioneer Arms C0. Can you help me on the value and if it is safe to fire.
Pioneer Arms Co. was one of the many names used on guns made by Crescent. Crescent made what is commonly called hardware guns - a hardware store could order a shipment of guns with whatever name on them they wanted. There are hundreds of names out there and maybe more. I don't know if they have any value, unless someone wants to pay $75 for a wallhanger to decorate the den.
My father had a hammerless 16 ga. gun made by Crescent, an Essex fwiw. He got it in the 1930's and it was worn out - a loose hinge and falling apart - by the beginning of WWII.
Here's a description I copied off an auction site:
"Pioneer Arms double barrel shotguns were made by Crescent Fire Arms Company of Norwich, Conn, sometime between 1892 and about 1940. Crescent made thousands of these shotguns with many different brand names for individual hardware stores to sell. Pioneer Arms were made for the Kruse and Balkmann Hardware Co. of Cincinnati, Ohio."
My father had a hammerless 16 ga. gun made by Crescent, an Essex fwiw. He got it in the 1930's and it was worn out - a loose hinge and falling apart - by the beginning of WWII.
Here's a description I copied off an auction site:
"Pioneer Arms double barrel shotguns were made by Crescent Fire Arms Company of Norwich, Conn, sometime between 1892 and about 1940. Crescent made thousands of these shotguns with many different brand names for individual hardware stores to sell. Pioneer Arms were made for the Kruse and Balkmann Hardware Co. of Cincinnati, Ohio."
can you defien the type of damascus barrel it has? there were two damascus barrels being used back then.
one process used genuine, actual ingots of damascus steel as used in making high grade sword blades, hammer forged over a mandrel and then machined to final size.
the second method, and the most common on low end weapons, was to siply take a few strips of steels, and heat them up, twist them around a mandrel and them hammer weld them all togther. those are weaker then the real deal but they worked.
determination of that is important. antigue damascus shotgun barrels from turkey have been popular over the years to make custom single shot muzzleloading rifles.
one process used genuine, actual ingots of damascus steel as used in making high grade sword blades, hammer forged over a mandrel and then machined to final size.
the second method, and the most common on low end weapons, was to siply take a few strips of steels, and heat them up, twist them around a mandrel and them hammer weld them all togther. those are weaker then the real deal but they worked.
determination of that is important. antigue damascus shotgun barrels from turkey have been popular over the years to make custom single shot muzzleloading rifles.
IMO, you have a shotgun shaped artifact that will look great over your fireplace.
Some folks do use Damascus barreled shotguns to this day. The brands are all top end. Purdey, Parker, et al.
Nobody still shoots a gun that cost $11 when new.
Besides the Damascus barrels, those chambers are almost certainly made for shells shorter than we use today.
Shotguns and grenades have similar working pressures.
If this is a large gauge like a 12, it can be set up with subguage tubes that allow SAFE use of smaller gauge shells, Not cheap.
HTH.....
Some folks do use Damascus barreled shotguns to this day. The brands are all top end. Purdey, Parker, et al.
Nobody still shoots a gun that cost $11 when new.
Besides the Damascus barrels, those chambers are almost certainly made for shells shorter than we use today.
Shotguns and grenades have similar working pressures.
If this is a large gauge like a 12, it can be set up with subguage tubes that allow SAFE use of smaller gauge shells, Not cheap.
HTH.....