Pilot buying guns

D

Dust

New member
Pilot buying/flying with guns

Just thinking about this, and wanted to know where the law stood. I did a search and saw alot of stuff about staying out of Chicago and NYC, but didn't see anything about flying after buying. Can a pilot, just a normal pilot, no special licenses aside from a Texas Hunter's Education, buy a gun in another state, and bring it back to Texas with him/her? I know that flying with a gun is okay, but don't know about buying and flying.
 
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Depends on the length of the gun as well as the state.

A long gun you probably could, depending on the state... a short / hand gun no.
 
This one is addressed in Federal law:


A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm
from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer
in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.
[18 U. S. C 922(a)( 3)and (5), 922( b)(3), 27 CFR 178.29]



A person may “sell” a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her state (you the visitor in
another state), if the buyer is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a
licensee in any state. A firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed
collector. [18 U. S. C 922(a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]



Link added: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/legal/interstate.htm
 
Federal law prohibits U.S. residents without a Federal Firearms License (FFL) from buying a handgun out-of-state. Handgun purchases must go through a FFL in your home state. If you want to buy a handgun at an out-of-state dealer, they must send it to a dealer in your home state, who will then transfer it to you.

An out-of-state dealer FFL may sell you a long gun (rifle or shotgun) as long as the transaction is conducted over-the-counter at their officially licensed place of business {27 CFR § 478.29(b)}. This usually means that you may not buy at a gun show. I have, however, heard of instances where a gun show purchase was arranged by sending the gun to the official business location for later pickup by the buyer, or arranging for the buyer to pick up an identical gun from inventory.

An out-of-state collector or Curio & Relic (C&R) FFL may sell you a C&R-eligible long gun anywhere as long as the transaction occurs face-to-face. The license is granted to an individual, so that person is the "place of business". :) However, to reiterate, this rule is only valid for C&R-eligible firearms.

Section 46.07 of the Texas Penal Code could theoretically be interpreted to prohibit a Texas resident from buying firearms in states that aren't contiguous, i.e. states other than LA, AR, OK, and NM.
Sec.46.07. INTERSTATE PURCHASE. A resident of this state
may, if not otherwise precluded by law, purchase firearms,
ammunition, reloading components, or firearm accessories in
contiguous states. This authorization is enacted in conformance
with Section 922(b)(3)(A), Public Law 90-618, 90th Congress.
Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Renumbered from Penal Code Sec. 46.08 by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch.
900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.
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This statute was passed in response to a federal law about contiguous-state purchases that was repealed some years ago. It doesn't explicitly say you can't buy firearms in non-contiguous states, and I haven't heard of anyone actually being prosecuted for doing so, but it's something to contemplate if you're the "better safe than sorry" type. YMMV. ;) FWIW this law is widely expected to be repealed in the current legislative session, but AFAIK it hasn't happened yet.

Mandatory disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. This is not official legal advice. YMMV. :D
 
An out-of-state dealer FFL may sell you a long gun (rifle or shotgun) as long as the transaction is conducted over-the-counter at their officially licensed place of business {27 CFR § 478.29(b)}. This usually means that you may not buy at a gun show. I have, however, heard of instances where a gun show purchase was arranged by sending the gun to the official business location for later pickup by the buyer, or arranging for the buyer to pick up an identical gun from inventory.
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How does that get around the "firearm" verbage cited in 27 CFR 178.29.

The chicken or the egg? Update? I'm just confused on that. :confused:
 
carguychris said:
Section 46.07 of the Texas Penal Code could theoretically be interpreted to prohibit a Texas resident from buying firearms in states that aren't contiguous, i.e. states other than LA, AR, OK, and NM.

Quote:
Sec.46.07. INTERSTATE PURCHASE. A resident of this state
may, if not otherwise precluded by law, purchase firearms,
ammunition, reloading components, or firearm accessories in
contiguous states. This authorization is enacted in conformance
with Section 922(b)(3)(A), Public Law 90-618, 90th Congress.
Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Renumbered from Penal Code Sec. 46.08 by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch.
900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

This statute was passed in response to a federal law about contiguous-state purchases that was repealed some years ago. It doesn't explicitly say you can't buy firearms in non-contiguous states, and I haven't heard of anyone actually being prosecuted for doing so, but it's something to contemplate if you're the "better safe than sorry" type. YMMV. FWIW this law is widely expected to be repealed in the current legislative session, but AFAIK it hasn't happened yet.
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BATFE has interpreted this to allow Texas residents to buy long guns from FFLs just about anywhere. August 2004 FFL Newsletter:

CONTIGUOUS STATE – PART 2

In an article that appeared in the December 2002
edition of the FFL Newsletter, we advised FFLs
that the “contiguous state” provisions of the Gun
Control Act were amended in 1986, and that the
GCA allows dealers to sell or dispose of a long
gun to a resident of another state provided, (1) the
purchaser was not otherwise prohibited from
receiving or possessing a firearm under the GCA,
and ( 2) the sale, delivery and receipt fully comply
with the legal conditions of sale in the buyer’s and
seller’s States.

The condition of sale relating to compliance with
the applicable laws of both States cited above
continues to cause confusion among dealers,
particularly among those dealers who conduct
business in a State whose laws presently contain
language that allows “contiguous state” sales.
Historically, prior to the 1986 amendments to the
GCA, many States enacted provisions in their laws
that allowed their residents to acquire a long gun in
a contiguous State. For the most part, these State
law provisions were modeled after the contiguous
state provisions of the GCA. However, even
though the GCA was amended in 1986 to allow
the sale of long guns to residents of any State
pursuant to the conditions cited above, many States
have not yet amended their laws to reflect similar
language. ATF takes the position that if the laws
of a given State allow its residents to acquire a long
gun in a contiguous State, those laws also allow its
residents to acquire a long gun in any other State
where the laws of that State permit such
transactions, unless the language contained in that
State’s law expressly prohibits it residents from
acquiring a firearm outside that State. Questions
regarding particular State law provisions should be
referred to your local ATF office.
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http://www.atf.gov/firearms/newsletter/ffl_newsltr_aug04.pdf
 
Lets clarify that the only guns being purchased will be by a lawabiding citizen with no record, and the guns will only be long guns.
 
It is a felony to have any kind of gun (longgun, licensed CCW, anything) in a secure area of a Texas airport. I'm assuming there is some exception for armed pilots (I don't know the laws on that), as I'm sure they have to get the gun on the plane somehow. I had just messaged Dust to see if he knew the rules for commercial pilots carrying to and from the plane.

Not so much applicable for the buying, but possibly a consideration for the transporting.
 
Lets clarify that the only guns being purchased will be by a lawabiding citizen with no record, and the guns will only be long guns.
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You can purchase a long gun from a FFL dealer but only at their registered place of business.

You can purchase a C&R long gun from a C&R FFL at any location.

Certain states have regulations regarding firearms sales that affect everyone who comes in their door, including residents of other states. This includes several states on the East Coast, CA, and IL. The restrictions are too complex to easily explain here. If traveling to these areas, I recommend contacting the FFL in advance to learn what hurdles you may encounter. However, in most states near TX, you will be fine.
It is a felony to have any kind of gun (longgun, licensed CCW, anything) in a secure area of a Texas airport.
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The "secure area" is essentially the same as the "sterile area" as explained in 49 CFR 1544. Many commercial pilots never have a reason to enter a sterile area, regardless of whether they're carrying a firearm. Furthermore, the vast majority of airports have no sterile area.
 
I guess I just figured a pilot who wished to transport a personal firearm would do so in checked baggage just like a passenger.
 
His profession has a lot to do with it. He has the ability to pick up a gun, and travel across several state lines in a single day. I am wondering what laws would apply to pilots, being that they travel all over the country/world. I would like to ask him to pick up something in another state and bring it back, instead of having to register the purchase with the government and pay to ship it. Put in in a case, with the gun unloaded.disabled, and checked as baggage, what problems would he have flying within the US?
 
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I guess I just figured a pilot who wished to transport a personal firearm would do so in checked baggage just like a passenger.
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Yeah, nevermind, I thought Dust mentioned that his friend was a pilot because they can carry onboard. Checking it is the obvious choice, and the pilot will know the regs on that (on either, actually - I'll shut it for now). :o
 
I'll talk to him and see what he knows. I don't know if he is willing to do it, just wanted to check legality before asking.
 
His profession has a lot to do with it. He has the ability to pick up a gun, and travel across several state lines in a single day. I am wondering what laws would apply to pilots, being that they travel all over the country/world. I would like to ask him to pick up something in another state and bring it back, instead of having to register the purchase with the government and pay to ship it. Put in in a case, with the gun unloaded.disabled, and checked as baggage, what problems would he have flying within the US?
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I'll talk to him and see what he knows. I don't know if he is willing to do it, just wanted to check legality before asking.
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So, are you asking him to purchase a rifle for you and bring it back to deliver to you?
 
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