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pietta 1858 44 Caliber Revolver
- Thread starter Leigh S
- Start date
Leigh...
First, of all... Welcome to the forum. This is the right place to be.
My Pietta takes .454 balls best
When you load the revolver, one of the things the ball does for you is to help seal the wall of the chamber to prevent hot gas from the discharged chamber from getting past the bullet and into the powder in the chambers which are not in line with the barrel.
To make sure this seal is as good as it can be, shooters like to observe a complete ring of lead that is shaved off the the bullet as the bullet is rammed into the chamber.
The ball should be large enough that you get a complete ring.
In addition, the ball has to thoroughly engage the rifling of the barrel. The groove diameter of your barrel should be somewhere around .446, so I am thinking that either ball will engage the rifling successfully. The Chamber diameter is right at .450.
But think about it. At .451, the most that the chamber will shave off the ball is .001 but at .454, you are shaving off .004. This shaving action actually takes the ball which starts out as a sphere creates a flat band all the way around the bullet. This flat area creates more surface for the bullet to engage the rifling.
Other members will very likely wade in with data from a scientific comparison of .451 performance as measured against .454 performance. I never did a comparison of bullet speed nor have I noted much difference in accuracy because I am not that good of a shot.
To me it all boils down to the lead ring.
First, of all... Welcome to the forum. This is the right place to be.
My Pietta takes .454 balls best
When you load the revolver, one of the things the ball does for you is to help seal the wall of the chamber to prevent hot gas from the discharged chamber from getting past the bullet and into the powder in the chambers which are not in line with the barrel.
To make sure this seal is as good as it can be, shooters like to observe a complete ring of lead that is shaved off the the bullet as the bullet is rammed into the chamber.
The ball should be large enough that you get a complete ring.
In addition, the ball has to thoroughly engage the rifling of the barrel. The groove diameter of your barrel should be somewhere around .446, so I am thinking that either ball will engage the rifling successfully. The Chamber diameter is right at .450.
But think about it. At .451, the most that the chamber will shave off the ball is .001 but at .454, you are shaving off .004. This shaving action actually takes the ball which starts out as a sphere creates a flat band all the way around the bullet. This flat area creates more surface for the bullet to engage the rifling.
Other members will very likely wade in with data from a scientific comparison of .451 performance as measured against .454 performance. I never did a comparison of bullet speed nor have I noted much difference in accuracy because I am not that good of a shot.
To me it all boils down to the lead ring.
Thank you for the good post. That makes sense about the ring. But what puzzles me is why would the sales man tells me to use 451 and the book thy package with the factory book say use 451 and your wright the pieta factory book states 454.
Knowing this I hope the 451 mold that I order will work out.
Knowing this I hope the 451 mold that I order will work out.
DD4lifeusmc
New member
451 vs 454
Many salesmen don't know anything about BP guns.
Many older originals did use a 451 and is now mostly outdated information.
We have much better quality control than in antiquity.
Plus the big resellers get a better price break on 451 balls.
Best thing to do, is use a micrometer or ball gauge on your cylinder chamber.
Confirm the measurement.
If .446 to .448 then,451 would be ok.
But if .448 to .449 then better to use the 454.
wouldn't hurt to measure the barrel bore at the cylinder end, just to confirm.
Remember, once a ball is pressed into the cylinder it is no longer round.
Many salesmen don't know anything about BP guns.
Many older originals did use a 451 and is now mostly outdated information.
We have much better quality control than in antiquity.
Plus the big resellers get a better price break on 451 balls.
Best thing to do, is use a micrometer or ball gauge on your cylinder chamber.
Confirm the measurement.
If .446 to .448 then,451 would be ok.
But if .448 to .449 then better to use the 454.
wouldn't hurt to measure the barrel bore at the cylinder end, just to confirm.
Remember, once a ball is pressed into the cylinder it is no longer round.
Leigh...
You ask some pertinent questions.
Why would the saleman tell you to use .451s?
Well, .451's will work but not as good (IMO) as .454s. The saleman may have had a bunch of .451 bullets he wanted to sell but no .454s. The salesman may be ignorant of cap and ball shooting.
As regards the mold, depending upon which mold it is, you may get bullets that are actually larger than .451. I use mostly Lee molds and get bullets up to three thousand's larger than the mold size.
Another technique is to drop the bullets out of the mold into cold water. This will help them retain their larger size, rather than to shrink as the cool slowly.
Cast some bullets this way and see if you shave a ring all the way round. If you do, you are prolly okay.
If you don't shave a complete ring, then you are relying upon the wad under the ball (if you use one) or the lube over the ball (If that is your technique) to provide the seal on the chamber in addition to the lubricating functions they are intended to produce.
You ask some pertinent questions.
Why would the saleman tell you to use .451s?
Well, .451's will work but not as good (IMO) as .454s. The saleman may have had a bunch of .451 bullets he wanted to sell but no .454s. The salesman may be ignorant of cap and ball shooting.
As regards the mold, depending upon which mold it is, you may get bullets that are actually larger than .451. I use mostly Lee molds and get bullets up to three thousand's larger than the mold size.
Another technique is to drop the bullets out of the mold into cold water. This will help them retain their larger size, rather than to shrink as the cool slowly.
Cast some bullets this way and see if you shave a ring all the way round. If you do, you are prolly okay.
If you don't shave a complete ring, then you are relying upon the wad under the ball (if you use one) or the lube over the ball (If that is your technique) to provide the seal on the chamber in addition to the lubricating functions they are intended to produce.
I use the .451s. I have found that they shave a nice ring. I have not measured the ring, and my estimates are poor.
The real test I am using, is the force needed to get the ball into the cylinder, and to shave that ring. And that force is rather great even with a lever to accomplish it.
I think if I tried the .454s the lever would break off. That has been known to happen.
Now, I may have a cylinder that is just a bit smaller than yours. Or because my gun is new, it may not have worn out to a larger size as yet. Maybe someday it will.
Or they may be selling me balls that are a slight bit larger than actual .451.
If I ever find a .451 that loads too loose, or if I ever see some movement of the seated ball after recoil, then I will consider going to the .454s.
dc
The real test I am using, is the force needed to get the ball into the cylinder, and to shave that ring. And that force is rather great even with a lever to accomplish it.
I think if I tried the .454s the lever would break off. That has been known to happen.
Now, I may have a cylinder that is just a bit smaller than yours. Or because my gun is new, it may not have worn out to a larger size as yet. Maybe someday it will.
Or they may be selling me balls that are a slight bit larger than actual .451.
If I ever find a .451 that loads too loose, or if I ever see some movement of the seated ball after recoil, then I will consider going to the .454s.
dc
At cabelas thy had no (IMO) and thy did not have the molds either and the 451 was on backorder but at that time I could order the 454 but now it is on back order. May be thy know something a bout it? I am confused. I picked up some 454 about 40 mi away from The house, and if it stops raining I might test the gun. Thank you for all for the help.
g.willikers
New member
Just to add to the confusion,
Mine uses .451 also.
Remember, they come from the land of Fiat and Alfa Romeo, where wine is for lunch.
Mine uses .451 also.
Remember, they come from the land of Fiat and Alfa Romeo, where wine is for lunch.
My experience at Cabelas when I purchased my Piettas showed me that the salesman was not too knowledgeable and to his defense even said as much. However I was fortunate enough to do some research before buying. The most informative stuff that I've read was from the forum. You need to read the "sticky" post at the top off this forum if you haven't done so already. I actually copied it and read it a couple of times and still go back to it when the need arises.
Oh and I use .454 balls because that was what the Pietta manual stated.
Oh and I use .454 balls because that was what the Pietta manual stated.
Bishop Creek
New member
I have several Pietta Remington '58s and my favorite one made in 2000 uses .451 round balls perfectly with a nice shaved ring. I tried to ram a .454 in once and it felt like I was going to break the rammer. I also have a newer Pietta with the short barrel made in 2007 or so and it takes the .454 balls with a nice shaved ring. To add to the confusion, I also own a Pietta '58 "Shooters" model with the Remington barrel address on top and a silver plated trigger guard and it takes a .457 ball just like the Ruger Old Army.
After consultation, the doctor's are in agreement...
His wallet will definitely have to come out.
The good thing about the passion is that you can shoot with one revolver so the bulk of your expense is behind you.
The bad thing about the passion is that you eventually won't be satisfied shooting just one revolver so the bulk of your expense is before you.
His wallet will definitely have to come out.
The good thing about the passion is that you can shoot with one revolver so the bulk of your expense is behind you.
The bad thing about the passion is that you eventually won't be satisfied shooting just one revolver so the bulk of your expense is before you.
Leigh..
We are similar in our description.
My first revolver was a brass frame 1851 pattern revolver in .36 which I put together as a kit. I bought it in about 1975 or so from Shotgun News, prolly an EMF. And one was not enough.
I got away from the passion thanks to my thankfully Ex wife. Should have divorced her BEFORE I sold all of my cap and ball stuff.
Present wife is much more reasonable. I don't ask her to go shooting and she doesn't ask me to go to church.
We are similar in our description.
My first revolver was a brass frame 1851 pattern revolver in .36 which I put together as a kit. I bought it in about 1975 or so from Shotgun News, prolly an EMF. And one was not enough.
I got away from the passion thanks to my thankfully Ex wife. Should have divorced her BEFORE I sold all of my cap and ball stuff.
Present wife is much more reasonable. I don't ask her to go shooting and she doesn't ask me to go to church.