picking out my first AK-47
- Thread starter chaffinyo
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xxxleafybugxxx
New member
I have a wasr10. Runs great. My next ak will probably be a saiga ak74. You spend more, ut you get what you pay for
RedBowTies88
New member
5.45 is running about $135 for 1080 rounds...
I say start there
I say start there
MagnumWill
New member
Either round is great, I hav an AES-10B RPKS in 7.62x39. Keep in mind there is no such thing as non-corrosive 5.45, so if you're shooting it at an indoor range they'll give you grief about it. If you have the ability to go shoot on a friend's ranch, out in the forest, etc. without bothering anyone, then definitely grab a '74. Hell, get both! 
The 7.62x39 fires a big bullet at slow speeds capable of busting through intermediate barriers like concrete, brick, and cinder blocks. Some people have even used it for hunting at short distances say under 100 yards. The rainbow trajectory, terrible accuracy (>4 MOA), and terrible sights limit AK from a hunting perspective Not the energy retained by the bullet at longer range.
Even in a relatively heavy 10lb fully loaded AK, the gun is uncontrollable on full automatic fire due to the heavy recoil and muzzle climb. In practice use, there is really not much downside to the watered down civilian semiauto versions sold in the US. You may think you are getting a good deal for a $400 AK in the US made from recycled parts from the arsenals of the former commie block when it is sold in the Third world for less than $100.
The 5.45 cartridge has been the standard ammunition for the Russian military for the past 30 years. For better or worse, the Soviet Union decided to adopted a smaller round in light of the US experience in the Vietnam War. Troops could carry more ammo since it was lighter and since most combat is at close range under 200 yards, there is not much lost advantage in lethality.
The smaller 5.45 round is similar to the Nato 5.56 in everything including accuracy, lethality, and lack of recoil. If I wanted a small caliber round, I probably would choose an AR or Min14 for their much better ergonomics and customability that the AK-74 clone...not to mention the fact that there is no brass ammunition in production anywhere and all ammo is currently imported, corrosive stuff requiring extra cleaning steps to avoid turning your gun barrel into a rusty pipe.
Even in a relatively heavy 10lb fully loaded AK, the gun is uncontrollable on full automatic fire due to the heavy recoil and muzzle climb. In practice use, there is really not much downside to the watered down civilian semiauto versions sold in the US. You may think you are getting a good deal for a $400 AK in the US made from recycled parts from the arsenals of the former commie block when it is sold in the Third world for less than $100.
The 5.45 cartridge has been the standard ammunition for the Russian military for the past 30 years. For better or worse, the Soviet Union decided to adopted a smaller round in light of the US experience in the Vietnam War. Troops could carry more ammo since it was lighter and since most combat is at close range under 200 yards, there is not much lost advantage in lethality.
The smaller 5.45 round is similar to the Nato 5.56 in everything including accuracy, lethality, and lack of recoil. If I wanted a small caliber round, I probably would choose an AR or Min14 for their much better ergonomics and customability that the AK-74 clone...not to mention the fact that there is no brass ammunition in production anywhere and all ammo is currently imported, corrosive stuff requiring extra cleaning steps to avoid turning your gun barrel into a rusty pipe.
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RetiredMajor
New member
My WASR 10 is very reliable and a lot of fun. It's plenty accurate at 100 yards. There's just something fun about owning one of the iconic firearms of our time.
The WASR 10 has a chrome lined barrel and is very durable.
Avoid the naysayers and do your own research. And, good luck!
The WASR 10 has a chrome lined barrel and is very durable.
Avoid the naysayers and do your own research. And, good luck!
MagnumWill
New member
In response to Flakbait's post, i don't think the assumptions he's made are entirely accurate-
First off, ALL ammo is mildly corrosive, but there's only an issue if you live in a humid climate and plan to crack off multiple mags of milsurp ammo and never plan on cleaning it. Even a rudimentary clean will negate the effects of corrosive ammo (I have put about 2,000 rounds of corrosive ammo through my RPK and there is nary a rust spot anywhere, and I give it a normal clean after I shoot it). If you pick up one with a chrome-lined barrel, it will negate corrosive ammo even further.
Also, compared to a Mini-14 and an AR, a $400 AK is a great deal, considering how you can fill it with sand and muck and it will still function- unless you can get a hold of said $100 AK for me
And a friend of mine picked up an RAA Saiga 7.62 AK, and he just took his first buck with it... at 400 yards. Which don't get me wrong was a STRETCH for that, but still effective. At that distance I would be hesitant with a 7.62X54R, but I guess different strokes. My RPK can consistently make hits outwards of 200 yard open sights, regardless. I'm actually more comfortable with making hits at that range than either of my Mosin-Nagants (one of which is PU scoped).
A lot of the new Century gun have seemed to address the quality issues such as canted gas blocks, mag wobble etc. So I would say get an AK and don't look back. Later on when you have the cash, pick up an AR if you feel you need to glean a little more accuracy out.
First off, ALL ammo is mildly corrosive, but there's only an issue if you live in a humid climate and plan to crack off multiple mags of milsurp ammo and never plan on cleaning it. Even a rudimentary clean will negate the effects of corrosive ammo (I have put about 2,000 rounds of corrosive ammo through my RPK and there is nary a rust spot anywhere, and I give it a normal clean after I shoot it). If you pick up one with a chrome-lined barrel, it will negate corrosive ammo even further.
Also, compared to a Mini-14 and an AR, a $400 AK is a great deal, considering how you can fill it with sand and muck and it will still function- unless you can get a hold of said $100 AK for me
And a friend of mine picked up an RAA Saiga 7.62 AK, and he just took his first buck with it... at 400 yards. Which don't get me wrong was a STRETCH for that, but still effective. At that distance I would be hesitant with a 7.62X54R, but I guess different strokes. My RPK can consistently make hits outwards of 200 yard open sights, regardless. I'm actually more comfortable with making hits at that range than either of my Mosin-Nagants (one of which is PU scoped).
A lot of the new Century gun have seemed to address the quality issues such as canted gas blocks, mag wobble etc. So I would say get an AK and don't look back. Later on when you have the cash, pick up an AR if you feel you need to glean a little more accuracy out.
I am not an ammo expert by any means but Western modern ammuntion is NOT corrosive. The West stopped using corrosive primers after WWII. Your gun may rust if you leave it in a humid climate.
Not cleaning it after firing noncorrosive ammo will have ZERO affect on rust formation. Some folks don't clean their firearms but once a year and have little problems if they stored them correctly in a non humid enviroment.
Commie bloc ammunition unless explicitly stated is likely to use corrosive primers since corrosive primers had the advantage of longevity over noncorrosive primers. They can be stored for decades and maintain their integrity. The one think the Commies did learn from WWII was stockpiling weapons and ammo in preparation for the next world war. If you don't clean your barrel after using corrosive ammo, rust can begin to form even as fast as overnight given the right humid climate since the potassium salt compounds attract water promoting rust formation.
Many but not all AKs use chrome line barrels to minimize the impact of rust formation. Using corrosive ammo creates an obligation to clean your weapon the day you shoot it, not a week later. I would make sure my AK barrel is chrome lined if I were to think about using corrosive ammo since I am by nature lazy when it comes to gun cleaning and have numerous other family obligations that take priority over gun cleaning when I return from the range.
About the AK vs the AR, I that is a whole other topic. Since I am 6'2 with long arms, I find the short length of pull of the standard AK butt stock to be very uncomfortable. The thin plastic buttstocks on some like the Arsenal ones feel like they are slapping me in the face. On the other hand, I much perfer wood stock AKs even with their short stocks since they seem to fit better and dont slap me as much.
I find the AR to be immensely more ergonomic and easy to fit anyone with its adjustable stocks. Yes there are kits to add adjustable stocks to AK's but then you lose the character of the classic AK. Its like adding a AIMPOINT RED DOT to a Winchester levergun,. Yes, you can do it but it somehow doesn't look right.
Townsend Whelen once said "Only accurate rifles are interesting." I'm not sure I agree 100 percent with that statement but the 4-6 MOA accuracy of most AKs limits their appeal to me. I am more than willing to borrow AKs from friends and relatives but have 2 spots in my gunsafe reserved for AR's.
To hit a mansized target at 100 yards with an AK is not too difficult. To hit a apple with one would present a challenge.
In revisiting the 7.62x39 vs 5.45x39 choice again, there is NO domestic source of 5.45x39 ammo. There is a theoretical risk that our current President can make an executive decision not ratified by Congress to ban the importion of all Russian ammunition just like past Presidents have banned the importation of Chinese ammunition. Is that scenario likely...perhaps if he gets another term in office and doesn't have to worry about reelection again.
Not cleaning it after firing noncorrosive ammo will have ZERO affect on rust formation. Some folks don't clean their firearms but once a year and have little problems if they stored them correctly in a non humid enviroment.
Commie bloc ammunition unless explicitly stated is likely to use corrosive primers since corrosive primers had the advantage of longevity over noncorrosive primers. They can be stored for decades and maintain their integrity. The one think the Commies did learn from WWII was stockpiling weapons and ammo in preparation for the next world war. If you don't clean your barrel after using corrosive ammo, rust can begin to form even as fast as overnight given the right humid climate since the potassium salt compounds attract water promoting rust formation.
Many but not all AKs use chrome line barrels to minimize the impact of rust formation. Using corrosive ammo creates an obligation to clean your weapon the day you shoot it, not a week later. I would make sure my AK barrel is chrome lined if I were to think about using corrosive ammo since I am by nature lazy when it comes to gun cleaning and have numerous other family obligations that take priority over gun cleaning when I return from the range.
About the AK vs the AR, I that is a whole other topic. Since I am 6'2 with long arms, I find the short length of pull of the standard AK butt stock to be very uncomfortable. The thin plastic buttstocks on some like the Arsenal ones feel like they are slapping me in the face. On the other hand, I much perfer wood stock AKs even with their short stocks since they seem to fit better and dont slap me as much.
I find the AR to be immensely more ergonomic and easy to fit anyone with its adjustable stocks. Yes there are kits to add adjustable stocks to AK's but then you lose the character of the classic AK. Its like adding a AIMPOINT RED DOT to a Winchester levergun,. Yes, you can do it but it somehow doesn't look right.
Townsend Whelen once said "Only accurate rifles are interesting." I'm not sure I agree 100 percent with that statement but the 4-6 MOA accuracy of most AKs limits their appeal to me. I am more than willing to borrow AKs from friends and relatives but have 2 spots in my gunsafe reserved for AR's.
To hit a mansized target at 100 yards with an AK is not too difficult. To hit a apple with one would present a challenge.
In revisiting the 7.62x39 vs 5.45x39 choice again, there is NO domestic source of 5.45x39 ammo. There is a theoretical risk that our current President can make an executive decision not ratified by Congress to ban the importion of all Russian ammunition just like past Presidents have banned the importation of Chinese ammunition. Is that scenario likely...perhaps if he gets another term in office and doesn't have to worry about reelection again.
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Ignition Override
New member
Do many of the AK-74 clones (which were assembled by Century) now being sold still produce nasty keyhole gashes as happened a few years ago?
According to "Sturmgewehre", who bought an example not long ago, Century was well aware that many of the barrels on the Tantal had 5.56 bores (apparently chambered for the 5.45), which had most unfortunate results with the 5.45 bullets.
He reported that very few people were allowed to have a free replacement barrel, with the work done by Century, and that the company did him a huge favour.
Some of his videos have been on YouTube. Maybe Century realized how much more bad press would be distributed, by way of his videos.
The widespread very bad press about their CETMEs immed. convinced me to instead buy a Garand, and only from the CMP.
According to "Sturmgewehre", who bought an example not long ago, Century was well aware that many of the barrels on the Tantal had 5.56 bores (apparently chambered for the 5.45), which had most unfortunate results with the 5.45 bullets.
He reported that very few people were allowed to have a free replacement barrel, with the work done by Century, and that the company did him a huge favour.
Some of his videos have been on YouTube. Maybe Century realized how much more bad press would be distributed, by way of his videos.
The widespread very bad press about their CETMEs immed. convinced me to instead buy a Garand, and only from the CMP.
TheFineLine
New member
I've got a Polish underfolder 7.62x39. There is no chrome in the barrel. Not a problem, buy Bear, Wolf, whatever, just make sure it's non-corrosive. If you want to shoot the corrosive stuff, just clean your weapon when you're done. easy. Non-cromed barrel's are a little more accurate. I'm consistently hitting 4-6 in groups at 100 yards with the irons, hitting man sized targets at 300 yards. Put a scope or red-dot on it and make'em tighter if ya want to. I've also got a WASR-10 Romanian with cromed barrel. I prefer the Polish. It's lighter, more accurate (even though I had to get used to a chin weld instead of cheek weld) and it looks better. If you want a fun bullet hose that'll blow thru walls or other obstacles, never fail, and hit what you're aiming at for under $500 Go AK. Both of mine are Century builds. I inspected both (highly recommended) before I purchased them. They are both well built. If you put a few hundred rounds thru it and you're not having fun sell it, they increase in value every year. $400 is a great deal. If you can find one for $100 lemme know, I'll buy them all.
I would not get the AK74 because they are notorious for key holing(**** barrels). I would definitely get the WASR-10 or if money is an issue an SKS. It's like $125/500 rounds but at least the bullets aren't tumbling mid flight and you can buy ammo at wally world. Just my 2 cents ...
EDIT: Also just saw someone claiming that the AK-47 doesn't have controllable recoil. In Call of Duty yes, in real life no: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yz-0Svnoe8&feature=related
EDIT: Also just saw someone claiming that the AK-47 doesn't have controllable recoil. In Call of Duty yes, in real life no: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yz-0Svnoe8&feature=related
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Well first of all it shouldn't be much over $500. After that make sure the sights and gas block look pretty straight, make sure the barrel looks okay(not pitted), do a function test(rack the bolt and fire), and also make sure the disconnector works by pulling the trigger and while keeping it held down rack the bolt. Then let go of the trigger and you should hear a click. If they'll let you I would probably do a quick field strip also(take dust cover, spring assembly, bolt and bolt carrier off and just make sure everything looks right). Good luck man.
don't get an AK at Dunhams. Go to either Atlantic, gun broker, or KVAR and get an Arsenal. I recommend any of the older milled rifles, or the SGL 31 or SGL 21 rifle.
The best AK you can get in my opinion is a 16" Saiga 308. You convert it yourself for around 150 in your garage. Takes 2 hours.
The best AK you can get in my opinion is a 16" Saiga 308. You convert it yourself for around 150 in your garage. Takes 2 hours.
I agree that if it's much over $500 you should check out Atlantic Firearms. Just keep in mind that it's going to be about $20 shipping and the cost of the transfer fee($25-50 where I live) on top of what the cost of the rifle is. Personally I would stick to 7.62x39 and just get a basic one. There are better AKs then the WASR-10 but for the most bang for your buck they're a pretty good deal. Personally I wont ever spend more then $600 on an AK knowing that you can buy a fully automatic one in the middle east for $100. It's not a bolt action, I don't expect moa accuracy. You can spend $500 or you can spend $1000 but at the end of the day it's still a neutered AK.
xxxleafybugxxx
New member
Knowing you can buy for less in the Middle East is a very bad way of thinking. Clearly, we are NOT in the middle east. This is a very invalid way of looking at things.
I don't know how to quote but ... Yeah it's not the middle east but it's true. He asked for my opinion and I gave it to him. To me, spending $1,000 on a semi automatic, American made AK-47 is just absurd. I'm sure it's a really nice gun but I wouldn't spend that much on one. I can understand that they need to make some money off of them but that's just an insult to me. It's like they're giving me the finger and I'm still giving them business. It's sheet metal and some springs, how much can it cost to make one?