PFK Warszawa 1927 K98 Donation

C

CedarGrove357

New member
What would be your course of action with this rifle? The receiver is cracked on the right side just in front of the bolt handle. I have reservations about safety when it comes to damage on a receiver. The rifle functions and locks without issue, but I am leery.

My wife suggested JB Welding it. She says that's my "cure all". LOL :D

Thanks for your input.

 
I personally would not shoot a rifle with a cracked receiver and I especially would not attempt to fix it with JB weld. The rigidity of the piece is important to the structural strength of the receiver.

A crack in that area would also cause me to question the heat treat of the receiver and if other parts may be failing internally.

Others with more experience fixing guns like that may have options but I personally wouldn't want to be using a high power rifle with a crack anywhere in it. It has already failed and repeated stress could very well continue to weaken the point of failure
 
I had one of those.They area particularly nice rifle.Pretty much a small ring full length 98 action.They are nicely made.

The crack is a bummer.Obviously,don't even bother with the JB Weld.

And,I agree with dak,the default answer is a receiver with a crack in it is a "red tag" not suitable for service.No rifle is worth getting your hand or face destroyed.

If it were in complete ,military collector condition,it would have some significant value.

As it is,modified into a sporter,without the crack,in good working condition....

Because I like those rifles I might value it as high as $300(and that does not mean I can afford $300!!), I think few people would go that high.Thats without the crack.
Unfortunately,the crack is there.I would not buy it or shoot it.

Now,IF there was a compelling reason,there might be a rare individual who could assess the crack,why it happened.It could be possible ,on the rear bridge where it is,it could be TIG welded and refinished,and put back in service...with reservations.Maybe.But it would cost a fair amount of money to do that.In the end,you would still have a modified milsurp of questionable safety and not a lot of resale value.
It would be throwing good money after bad.
Better to look around in the used rifle racks and find something else.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the input guys - That's two initial opinions which match mine. If someone has other ideas, please chime in.

Also, the JB Weld comment was a joke from my wife. I certainly know better than to use it on something like this. :)

The rifle was a donation anyway for me to gain hands on experience so there is no money involved in it at all. The rest of the rifle is in decent shape, for now I will set it aside and go on to something else.

@dakota.potts - I am originally from the Clemson, SC area! Nice to see a local on here. I have family in Orangeburg, Anderson, and Beaufort on the coast. Hope to converse with you more often. Thanks for the input!
 
Last edited:
A rifle with a cracked receiver is totally unsafe to even think about shooting. That one is more than just a crack though. Looks like it got flame cut.
Part it out.
 
There might be some interest by a local museum or veterans' organization in such a rifle if it were deactivated for display purposes.

Jim
 
Well...if you want to use the rifle...and you are willing to spend some money...

I recommend TIG welding with a follow on crack inspection for the entire receiver (either magnaflux/MPI or the old wipe down with ATF then dry with a cloth and dowse with talcum powder to see if red lines appear).

The reasons why I recommend this is:

1, The crack is not in an area deliberately stressed by recoil, the rear receiver bridge functions only as a bolt guide and stripper clip interface on the Mauser 98 design.

2, The third "safety" lug recesses into the bottom of the receiver, underneath the bridge, and the only thing keeping that in place are the left and right rail areas because of the deep thumb cut into the action.

3, A crack inspection will reveal whether or not the receiver ring is sound or not, and that is the part of the action deliberately stressed during recoil.

If you aren't willing to spend the money to do the repairs correctly, I would definitely consider demilling the rifle and donating it to a museum. But as it is, the cost of repairing is probably worth at least as much as the rifle.

Jimro
 
I agree with Jimro. That is not a highly stressed area and could be welded, recontoured, and refinished. Hard to think how it got broken in the first place, unless hit by something.

BUT it would be an expensive process, one I could not justify on a minimum sporterizing cutdown. With the front sight changed, it would be difficult to "re-mil," too.
 
Jimro thanks for the optimism - the break didn't seem in a critical area holding the bolt lugs, however I wasn't sure being on the receiver. Last I checked my machine shop TIG welded so I will check with them and see if they can do it. I'm not working on this to sell, just for me, so I have to option to display it, part it, or have it shoot. At minimum it will be an opportunity to get some heat treating experience

I am sure I can make up some stories of how it fought the Nazi's during their invasion of Poland in the late 1930's. [Only a joke!]

Jim Watson - respectfully what do you mean by "re-mil" ing? Are you talking about reshaping the receiver after welding?
 
Sorry, "re-mil" is short for "re-militarization."
These days it is sometimes done to take a sporterized surplus rifle and return it to military configuration. There seems to be more interest in them that way, what with so many modern inexpensive sporters that will likely be more accurate than the old GI.

But it usually depends on starting with a simple sporter, without semi-permanent parts like sights changed.
 
I would not hesitate to weld the rear receiver ring. There are respected gunsmith that made dumb jokes by trying to be funny. One of them said the rear of the receiver could be made of butter, I did not laugh or think he was funny.

And then (there is always a 'and then) there is the receiver I posted pictures of; It was cut in half ahead of the rear receiver ring. Seems some impressionable soon to be smith wanted a short action Mauser and was told 'all you gotta do is etc.'. Anyhow, no one told him how difficult the project was without a lot of tools and equipment. I am not complaining, he paid $200 for the receiver 'and then gave it to me'.

F. Guffey
 
Forgive, You can take your wife's advise or be like me; if the cut at the rear receiver ring edge bothers someone it would bother them more than it would bother me. Remember; the Mauser 98 has a third lug, the third lug is a 'just in case thing (JIC)'. Unlike the 03 Springfield the Muaser third lug is hidden but it is ahead of the cut , so? there is no stress or strain on the rear/rear receiver ring.

F. Guffey
 
Thanks folks for the input. Its getting disassembled tonight and taken to a competent TIG welder I know. We've done some trading before.
 
At minimum it will be an opportunity to get some heat treating experience
Click to expand...

The last time I had a Mauser action heat treated, it was gas carburized to restore a hard surface finish after the action was sporterized. I bought the action partially sported, and wanted the lug recess area re-hardened after the previous case hardening was worn down by the previous owner trying to improve lug contact.

I point this out because as long as you have a good case hardening on the receiver ring, in and out, then you won't need to heat treat the receiver. A lot of original manufactured actions used the "pack hardening" method but would only use new pack material around the receiver ring, and reuse pack material for the rest of the action, which led to some much softer rear bridge areas.

If your welder friend is good with heat management, the heat from the TIG welding won't affect the receiver ring and you won't have to heat treat.

Jimro
 
Cedar Grove 357, your receiver has a cut, not a crack. I doubt the rifle was in the trunk of the Rabbi's auto when he backed into the Priest, I still believe they were racing and the Priest was following too close.

F. Guffey
 
I wouldn't fire it or put it into service.

With one exception: Only if my homeland is being invaded and thats all I have. Even then I would try to reduce the load on every cartridge I'd use.
 
I think it does matter if it was a cut or a crack.

I would have no concerns about a TIG repair on that location if an otherwise sound receiver was cut for some reason at that location.
For example,if someone botched and buggered receiver sight screw holes.

I have cut a lot of steel with various methods and I do not see that flaw as a cut by any method I recognize.
It does not show the kerf of a saw or abrasive wheel cut.

If it is a crack,If we can see the full extent of the flaw,if nothing else is wrong,I'd agree with it being a fairly simple weld and dress repair.

After all,its OK to weld on a bolt handle.

But there is certainly some mystery there.How does that happen?
A track has a story behind it.

Is this a piece of steel with slag inclusions? Was it a botched heat treat?

If a crack can just appear at that location,what says it does not have another flaw in the forward receiver ring??
True,perhaps with X-ray,magnaflux,etc,extensive non destructive testing might suggest it is sound.
But there is some mystery there that would bother me.

Its a bit like a low number 1903 Springfield with questionable heat treat.

Maybe its gone 110 years shooting 30-06 ammo without blowing up,yet.

And its still a low number 1903 Springfield with questionable heat treat.

Do you hand it off to your grandson and tell him not to worry?

I would not.

Wild guess possible theory? OK.Maybe the broach that cut the locking lug raceway had a little too sharp of corner on the cutter.Maybe there is insufficient radius on the inside corner of that cut,creating a stress riser.Does it continue to the front receiver ring?

Looking at the contouring,that spot will be thin.

In heat treat,it may get too hot,or become too carburized.In quench,it will cool more quickly,and become static while the adjacent thicker sections are still hot and shrinking.
I don't pretend to know the answer.
I do think its fair to say there is SOMETHING exceptional about that receiver or its history to cause the crack.
 
Last edited:
Semantics? Cut or crack, Priest or Rabbi, the gosh darn thing is split.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input.
Click to expand...
and you are welcome.


Again; listen to your wife; or you could apply the leaver policy, ‘leaverer’ way you founder. I suggest you remove the bolt and look at the inside of the rear receiver ring. I have never seen a crack with a gap that wide. I have receivers that are cracked, none of them have the appearance of having been cut and or hit with a sharp object like a chisel.

Before the Internet there was a term called submarine, old smiths when talking about submarine-ing would start their instructions with; “All you gotta do is etc. etc.” Again, if that was my rifle we would not be talking about the integrity of the rifle because I would have taken it to the range to check accuracy. Then there is the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face; I would know the length of the chamber in thousandths in about 5 minutes.


Back the accident; The Priest ran into the rear of the Rabbi, the accident was investigated by a cop named O'Riley. The first question; He asked the Priest
; "Now tell me Father how fast was he backing up when he hit you"

F. Guffey
 
Last edited:
forgot, I have a magnaflux machine.

My wife suggested JB Welding it. She says that's my "cure all". LOL
Click to expand...

My wife has a list starting with vinegar and WD40 at the top of the list.

F. Guffey
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top