Pennsylvania No Longer Honors Utah!!!

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Gary Slider

New member
The PA Attorney General has removed Utah as a state it honors. I do not know the reason why. Sometime earlier today 5/11/14 the PA AG site listing who PA honors was updated. Utah was removed from the list of state PA granted statutory reciprocity without a formal written agreement under 6106(b)(15) and placed it under the heading where PA residents could apply for a permit to carry in Utah. That means they no longer honor Utah. You can see it for yourself Here: http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184
Posting this as PA has signed new agreements with Arizona, Virginia and Florida stating they will no longer honor those states Non-Resident permits. Many were getting a Utah permit to continue carrying in PA and now that permit is no longer valid in PA.

www.handgunlaw.us has been updated to show this change in who honors who.
 
guruatbol said:
It is very easy to get a permit here in Utah. Maybe that has something to do with it.
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No, PA is even easier than Utah. No class requirement, no training requirement. Pay 20 bucks, pass a background check, pick up your license. The root of it is that the current Pennsylvania AG is rabidly anti-gun. On top of that, she has the perception (partially founded in fact) that Pennsylvania residents who can't obtain a PA license to carry concealed are going to other, reciprocal states and using non-resident licenses from other states to carry in their home state.

And the fact is that some PA residents have been doing that -- for the simple reason that Philadelphia has historically denied licenses to people who should never have been denied. The AG looks at this as simply "closing a loophole."

It's a sad situation, brought on entirely by the refusal by the City of Brotherly Love to acknowledge that they are subject to the same laws as the rest of the state. The unfortunate aspect is that it affects far more than just PA residents. People from other states who could previously have relied on a wide-coverage license such as Florida or Utah to carry in Pennsylvania must now get a Pennsylvania non-resident license to carry anywhere in PA. (To carry concealed, that is -- open carry is legal in PA except within Philadelphia city limits.) And the double gotcha there is that PA now requires that applicants MUST appear in person so their photo and signature can be captured digitally. No more mail-in applications for PA carry licenses. And, in blatant disregard for the law, some PA counties refuse to accept non-resident applications at all, meaning that out-of-state applicants have to first figure out which counties will even talk to them, then make the trek to go there and submit the application.

Bottom line: In the process of closing the "loophole" by which a few Philadelphia residents got around their PA denials, the AG has slammed the door on a lot of people from all across the country.
 
People from other states who could previously have relied on a wide-coverage license such as Florida or Utah to carry in Pennsylvania must now get a Pennsylvania non-resident license to carry anywhere in PA.
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Just to clarify, from what I read at handgunlaw.us, Pa still honors Florida CC licenses issued for Florida residents. They just won't honor a Florida non-resident license (same for Arizona, Maine, Mississippi and Va).

Please correct me if I am reading this wrong.

http://handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf
 
spacecoast said:
Just to clarify, from what I read at handgunlaw.us, Pa still honors Florida CC licenses issued for Florida residents. They just won't honor a Florida non-resident license (same for Arizona, Maine, Mississippi and Va).

Please correct me if I am reading this wrong.
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That is correct -- and PA will still honor the Utah license for residents of Utah, the Arizona license for residents of Arizona, and the Maine license for residents of Maine.

[Edited because of factual error -- see subsequent post by Gary Slider]

What PA will NOT do is honor any of those licenses for residents of PA, or residents of any state other than the issuing state. I happen to have a PA license, but in the past I could also have used a couple of my other non-resident permits (notably Florida) in Pennsylvania. The PA AG slammed the door on FL a year or more ago, and also Maine. Utah was the last one still valid, and we've known for some time that she had Utah in the cross hairs. It was only a matter of time before she nailed that door shut, as well.

Yes, Pennsylvania still has reciprocity with a number of states, either by statute or by agreement, but now ONLY for residents of the respective issuing states.
 
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Gary Slider said:
PA will honor VA, MS, AZ, FL and Maine Resident permits but not their non resident permits. They will not honor ANY Utah Permit!
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I stand (sit) corrected.

Thanks, Gary, for the clarification. My general comments on the background situation in PA remain.
 
Gary-over at PAFOA someone reported the AG sent a letter to Utah concerning a phone conversation. In a nutshell the AG cancelled the agreement because Utah would give permits to people who didn't have them from their home state (IF Utah didn't have reciprocity with that state), although it doesn't explain terminating the agreement for even UT resident permits.
My thought is she's looking for any reason to terminate or limit reciprocity agreements.
 
Is PA banning New Yorkers with NY carry permits or is it only some PA counties that are banning them ?
 
I believe it is all based on keeping as many people as possible disarmed while in the state of PA. I believe the AG doesn't like guns or people who carry them to protect themselves and their families.
 
PA is banning those in NY, MD and NJ who can't get a permit in their home state. PA does not honor NY but if you have a NY permit you can get a Non Resident PA Permit and carry in PA with it. If you don't have a permit from your home state then PA will not issue you a non resident permit.
 
While almost all states are expanding reciprocity, she's taking PA backwards. She probably can't even name one instance where a non-PA resident with a UT/AZ/VA/FL came into PA and caused any issue. She's "fixing" a non-existant problem.
 
Removing the gun permit issue from the discussion, isn't it the attorney generals job to administer the law as he/she believes it should be. I don't know about PA but I'm assuming they are elected by the people of that state. It's called states rights, which I firmly believe in. If enough people of PA disagree with her they will have the opportunity to vote her out and elect someone who will reverse her actions. To think that a politician will make everyone happy is absurd, ain't gonna happen. Start looking for a candidate who shares your vision and start working to get them elected.
For the record, I don't have a carry permit, don't want one and I've always thought the Utah permit was a bit of a sham. I'm surprised any state agreed to honor it.
 
According to some here in PA she is not in accordance with the law. The law states she can make agreements not modify or rescind them. Some other stuff she has also done or not done has caused some to consider impeachment.
 
However, there was not previously an "agreement" between Utah and Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania recognized Utah based on a statutory criterion that said the requirements of the two states must be substantially the same (which, of course, they were not -- since Utah required a class and PA did not). So what she actually did was exercise her statutory authority to reexamine the substantial equality of the two states' requirements, and determine that they were substantially equal.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I don't honestly see it as canceling a reciprocity agreement.

[Disclaimer: I don't remember if any of the other states she recently de-listed from recognition by PA were under formal agreement rather than statutory authority.]
 
Okay, I admit I don't keep up with this but I thought Utah did not require a class and that was why so many people from other states were getting their permits from there. Its been quite a few years but I thought it was all online or something, did they change? If PA's permit is so easy and minimal what were people getting turned down for that would slide by in another state?
 
Whats really going on is although PA is a "shall issue state" Philadelphia doesn't play nice so people there get and out of state license. She is changing things so PA will not recognize out of state permits for PA residents. She changed VA and FL thus far as those are common one to get. Fl VA and UT are all stricter than PA as they require a class.
 
Utah requires a class, which also includes training in the laws regarding use of deadly force -- something sorely lacking in most other states' training. No one with genuine familiarity with the Utah CFP application process considers it a 'sham'.

The whole "our residents get a Utah CFP and skip our own CCW permit" is hogwash, as Utah requires non-residents to have their home state CCW permit if their home state honors Utah. Utah did this a couple of years ago specifically to avoid termination of reciprocity/recognition on these grounds.

There is obviously something else going on here.
 
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