penetration

billtheshrink

New member
First i used one phone book...about 3inches thick and the .380 went through it like a knife through hot butter, same with the 40 s&w and .45acp, the 38 special failed to penetrate.

Two phone books taped together....nothing penetrated EXCEPT the 45 long colt,,,NO problem!!! I was amazed. Nobody had a 9mm and my friend forgot his .357.

Just thought this was interesting tidbit!

Bill
 
A lot depends on bullet design and construction, A FMJ will penetrate more than a cast SWC, sometimes even if fired from a more powerful gun.
 
So, if I tape two 3-inch thick phone books together across my chest I'll have effective body armor!

Just a cautionary tale, this is really one of those "your mileage may vary" scenarios. Tell use the relevant information:

What type and weight of bullet?
What type and charge of powder?
What is the nominal muzzle velocity for each?
How far were you from the phone books when you shot?

Want to try something really fun? Soak those phone books for about a week before you take them to the range and shot them wet. It's a mess but it gives good expansion on the hollowpoints.

And, in the final analysis, more than a 100 years of cartridge development has been for naught. The cowboys had it figgered from the start.
 
" A FMJ will penetrate more than a cast SWC,"

Not much difference if the SWC is hard cast and the diameter, weight & speeds are the same.
 
I appreciate the work and the effort behind these efforts, but I question what exercises like this tell us.

I have heard the argument that ballistic gelatin doesn't predict with accuracy how any given bullet will behave in the human body, and that is true.

However - a general correlation about bullet effectiveness based on average performance in ordinance gelatin was postulated, and the validity of that postulation has been accepted by the FBI and most major law enforcement agencies in America.

The theory is that a bullet that penetrates to around 14" in ordinance gelatin, is generally going to be effective at stoping hostilities / ending aggression, with a frontal shot, center of mass, by disrupting vital tissue found in the human body.

The theory is not that a bullet that penetrates to 14" in gelatin is going to penetrate to 14" wherever you shoot a human. That's not the idea. The idea is a loose correlation that projectiles that penetrate to 14" in ordinance gelatin will on average, consistently disrupt vital tissue. The larger diameter the projectile, the more tissue damage occurs.

Recent bullet design has utilized ordinance gelatin as part of the design process. The major bullet manufactors don't make their design tweaks based on shooting into phone books or gallon milk jugs of soggy newspaper, or into water.

There is a reason the major ammunition manufacturers don't test their designs on phone books or milk jugs filled with water - it's because the major LEAs in this country don't put stock in whatever data those tests reveal, and if an ammo maker actually designs their bullets using that medium - they may find that they fail in head to head comparisons that LEAs are going to do using ordinance gelatin when a department makes their purchasing contracts fo supply the department with ammo.


If someone wants to do statistical regression analysis on phone books, jugs of water, bales of soggy newspaper - and see how much penetration/expansion in each alternate medium equates to how penetration/expansion in bare ordinance gel - then that's great, but I haven't seen it yet.

The same exercise would have to be repeated with 4ply denim, etc...

It's pretty expensive to create a statistically valid sample. Someone would have to purchase and fire 5 or 6 different brands, firing 5 rounds in gelatin, 5 rounds into phone books - that's a lot of phone books not to mention the ordinance gelatin.

When I read about tests like these about the only thing I take away from it is:
"note to self - don't try to hide behind a phone book when being shot at"
 
I've been in a position to aquire a lot of bundled newspaper so I used wet newspaper as a test media to compare bullet performance. That's all you get is a comparison of what bullets do in a similar media.
I found that FMJ would penetrate further than SWC mainly because the flat nose of SWC compacted the paper to the point it sometimes diverted off course or stopped. The SWC did much more damage while in the media than did the FMJ. The uniformity of wet paper or water jugs will produce nicer looking mushrooms than what really happens when striking flesh and bone but again, it allows comparison between different bullets.
 
Tidbit about Penetration:

During WWI soldiers on the battle field were faced with a new weapon. A Tank.

Though lightly armored, ball ammo often wouldn't penetrate. Soldiers found that if they pulled the bullet of their rifle ammo, and inserted the cases backward, the bullet would penetrate the light armor of WWI tanks.

The inverted bullet also had the benefit of spewing hot lead from the core of the bullet in to the cavity of the tank once it penetrated.
 
Back
Top