peep, ghost ring, or traditional irons?
- Thread starter kcub
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cc-hangfire
New member
"What?" As in: what rifle, what distances, what application (hunting, long distance precision, 3 gun competition, recreational plinking, home defense, etc).
A ghost ring refers to a rear aperture that is a little wider (more open) than a normally constructed peep sight. If you remove the threaded disk from your garden variety Lyman or Williams receiver sights you will have a ghost ring to look through....
The reason its called a ghost ring is because you look THROUGH the rear peep and concentrate only on the front post/bead and the rear sight blurs out and disappears, hence the ghost. The eye is supposed to automatically center the post in the ring..... The term, I think, was coined by Col Jeff Cooper
The advantage of a peep is that it is faster to line up than regular front and rear iron sights. The human eye cannot focus on more than one object at once so it is more difficult to visually line up the rear sight with the front sight as well as the target (three objects) .....with a peep you just look through the rear ring at the front sight and just focus the front sight on the target.
They are precise enough for fairly long shots but there are a lot of guys that are quite good with regular irons.
The sights on the M1 Garand are the best ever mounted on an issue combat rifle and IMO are closer to true target sights than battle sights. The rear aperture on the M1 is too fine to be considered a true ghost ring although they are precise and very fast and effective.
The reason its called a ghost ring is because you look THROUGH the rear peep and concentrate only on the front post/bead and the rear sight blurs out and disappears, hence the ghost. The eye is supposed to automatically center the post in the ring..... The term, I think, was coined by Col Jeff Cooper
The advantage of a peep is that it is faster to line up than regular front and rear iron sights. The human eye cannot focus on more than one object at once so it is more difficult to visually line up the rear sight with the front sight as well as the target (three objects) .....with a peep you just look through the rear ring at the front sight and just focus the front sight on the target.
They are precise enough for fairly long shots but there are a lot of guys that are quite good with regular irons.
The sights on the M1 Garand are the best ever mounted on an issue combat rifle and IMO are closer to true target sights than battle sights. The rear aperture on the M1 is too fine to be considered a true ghost ring although they are precise and very fast and effective.
The two aperture flip AR-15/M16 A2 rear sight is pretty good, it combines the small rear aperture found on earlier US rifles with a large rear for fast close shooting.
The same can be said for rear sights found on Enfield No4 and No5 rifles. Big rear aperture for fast close shooting, but a small precise peep for when you want it.
The correct name for a "peep" sight is "aperture" sight. They have long been considered to be superior to all other iron sights (non-glass lens), since at least WWII.
As to their effectiveness in dim light, I had a Williams aperture sight mounted on a rifle one hunting season, years ago. The sight had a large aperture and had a brass insert surrounding the aperture opening...it was supposed to be and intended for superior for dim-light shooting. Long story short, while in the river flats at about five in the afternoon, with light already failing, I sighted a deer (buck), about sixty yards away from me.
This is where that sight was supposed to come into its own. However, I had a very hard time getting a sight picture, and the deer had stepped forward, putting a tree between himself and me. I had a blow-down just in front of me and I figured if I stepped over it, I could get a shot at the buck, but figgured that when I did, he would hear me, stop and look in my direction giving me a standing shot. It worked like a charm...I stepped (hopped), over he stopped and looked in my direction, giving me nearly a broad-side shot. I fired and he dropped. But...I never used iron sights of any type from then on for deer hunting inasmuch as the most productive deer hunting is in the two twilight times of the day here in Michigan.
Scopes for the superior sighting in poor light. As much as I loved the aperture sights since my Basic Training with an M1 Garand, I reluctantly have to admit that they are not much good in the low-light because they cut down on the amount of light entering your eye, when you could use a whole lot more.
Like many things, the best thing for one use is not always the best thing for another, but may serve tolerably well.
The peep, or aperture sight is considered the most precise iron sight. Also the simplest to learn. I have been told this is because of the human eye's natural ability to find the center of a circle.
Tiny peep opening have proven very accurate, but too slow for hunting or combat. Larger peep openings (Ghost Ring) give up a little of their accuracy potential but are much quicker to use, and are more than good enough for hunting or combat as far as accuracy is concerned.
Traditional open sights, V or U or square notch rear and a front blade or post are fast, and accurate, but are slightly more difficult to learn to use well.
And none of the iron sights has any light gathering ability, so you have only your own natural ability to see as the light fades.
And this is the point where optics have their greatest value for hunting, their light gathering ability. There are situations where, you are within legal shooting hours, and can see a deer, but cannot see iron sights well enough, OR see the deer well enough to tell if it is a legal deer.
A light gathering scope in the exact same situation can likely tell you if it's a legal buck, or not, and give you a sight you can see at the same time.
Nothing is perfect for all possible situations.
The peep, or aperture sight is considered the most precise iron sight. Also the simplest to learn. I have been told this is because of the human eye's natural ability to find the center of a circle.
Tiny peep opening have proven very accurate, but too slow for hunting or combat. Larger peep openings (Ghost Ring) give up a little of their accuracy potential but are much quicker to use, and are more than good enough for hunting or combat as far as accuracy is concerned.
Traditional open sights, V or U or square notch rear and a front blade or post are fast, and accurate, but are slightly more difficult to learn to use well.
And none of the iron sights has any light gathering ability, so you have only your own natural ability to see as the light fades.
And this is the point where optics have their greatest value for hunting, their light gathering ability. There are situations where, you are within legal shooting hours, and can see a deer, but cannot see iron sights well enough, OR see the deer well enough to tell if it is a legal deer.
A light gathering scope in the exact same situation can likely tell you if it's a legal buck, or not, and give you a sight you can see at the same time.
Nothing is perfect for all possible situations.
If you knew the answer to your "question", why ask it? Some responders spent (and apparently wasted) a lot of time and effort into providing you with some helpful and informed advice. What am I missing here?"...The correct answer is "ACOG"...." No, it isn't. Those are optical. snicker.
A ghost ring is a peep sight. Just has a larger aperture. Ghost rings are designed to function better in low light, but are primarily used at close range and have less precision.
There's more than one type of 'traditional iron' too. None of which are very good in low light.
Human eye's natural ability to find the center of a circle and inability to focus on more than one thing at a time.
A ghost ring is a peep sight. Just has a larger aperture. Ghost rings are designed to function better in low light, but are primarily used at close range and have less precision.
There's more than one type of 'traditional iron' too. None of which are very good in low light.
Human eye's natural ability to find the center of a circle and inability to focus on more than one thing at a time.
FrankenMauser
New member
I have aperture sights on a few rifles now.
I still haven't learned to shoot them well.
Overall, I do best with classic ('cheap') V-notch and U-notch sights with a round bead on the front blade (as opposed to a straight blade or post).
And, generally, I do better with flat-top rear sights, rather than buckhorn or semi-buckhorn.
But that's just me...
I still haven't learned to shoot them well.
Overall, I do best with classic ('cheap') V-notch and U-notch sights with a round bead on the front blade (as opposed to a straight blade or post).
And, generally, I do better with flat-top rear sights, rather than buckhorn or semi-buckhorn.
But that's just me...
I would also point out that guns fitted with gold/brass beads or stripes on the sight (front, normally) have been found to "shoot off" (meaning shoot to a slightly different point of impact) when the light is at certain angles.
Not usually a big problem if you target is minute of Deer boiler room, but something that can affect precision shooting.
Not usually a big problem if you target is minute of Deer boiler room, but something that can affect precision shooting.
A flat top post is the best front sight for a rear peep. With a bead it is more difficult to line up for elevation precisely.
But some still prefer a bead. At close range it probably doesn't matter much.
In my experience, the wider the post the bigger my group size. The width of the rear aperture doesn't seem to matter as much as the width of the front post.
I have an 03-A3, the width of the front post is so narrow that it seems a good bump would bend it. This, undoubtedly, because the military wanted some long range capability afforded by a front sight that covers up less of the target.
But some still prefer a bead. At close range it probably doesn't matter much.
In my experience, the wider the post the bigger my group size. The width of the rear aperture doesn't seem to matter as much as the width of the front post.
I have an 03-A3, the width of the front post is so narrow that it seems a good bump would bend it. This, undoubtedly, because the military wanted some long range capability afforded by a front sight that covers up less of the target.
stubbicatt
New member
Whichever works for you is the one to use.