Pass Guns to Family in Another State

[jnichols2]

Hi All.

I'm not old yet, but I'm no spring chicken.

I live in Texas, but my family is all in Ohio.

I have a number of handguns that I will be wanting to pass to family members there. I would prefer to hand them down myself rather than do it through a will.

Will I have to go through FFL for this? If so, can it be done by both parties at a single FFL in Ohio?

I suspect the answer is "Yes" to both questions.

 

[Spats McGee]

I do not know about gun laws in OH, so I cannot intelligently speak to them.

On the federal level, there is an exemption for specific bequests in a will. See 18 USC 922(a)(3) and (5). If you choose to hand them off while you are still alive, however, you will have to go through an FFL. You don't tell us whether they're handguns of long guns, but it makes a difference. In the case of long guns, it can be an FFL either in your state of residence, or the recipients'. In the case of handguns, it will have to be an FFL in the recipients' state of residence. See 18 USC 922(b)(3).

Frank, did I miss anything?

 

[carguychris]

Two minor notes...

In the case of long guns, it can be an FFL... in your state of residence...

...IF the laws of the destination state allow this. Some states require all transfers to go through an in-state FFL; I'm about 95% certain that OH isn't one of them, but I'm not 100% certain.

Also—although this probably goes without saying—the firearms must be lawful to possess in the destination state.

 

[jnichols2]

Sorry, I edited to reflect "handguns".

Also, if an FFL is required, it would be more convenient to do in in Ohio.

I can't help but wonder how this makes us "safer".

 

[rwilson452]

Just an off the wall opinion by a non lawyer type. I think part of the reasoning for making it necessary to do the transfer of a handgun in the state of residents of the receiver of a handgun is to insure that its legal to posses in that state. Again, just a guess on my part.

 

[Technosavant]

Yes, any handgun transfer that crosses state lines must happen at a FFL in the home state of the recipient. Make sure you have a FFL that will accept guns from a private party- some won't, but that's not all that common (especially when the owner of said guns is walking in the store with them).

As for why, it goes back to before the NICS check (as far as I know). The idea was the home state of the recipient would have a good idea as to the criminal proclivities (or lack thereof ) of its own residents- more so than other states would. It's an anachronism in federal law that hasn't changed... even though the technology and capability of instant checks sure has.

 

[44 AMP]

What you want to do is not a purchase, and since you are still alive, its not an inheritance. It would be a transfer, and I think the category would be "gift".

With the slight complication of a gift across state lines. What you need is sound legal advice from a lawyer in Ohio, where the guns are going to reside.

There are two sets of laws at work here, whatever laws there are about possessing the guns IN OHIO, and whatever laws there are about getting the guns TO Ohio.

Shipping the guns through an FFL (or possibly two FFLs, one on each end) MAY not be the only legal method, or it may be the only legal option. I'm afraid I don't know. This is where you need professional legal advice, about Ohio laws (and Fed laws). Is there a permit system, and/or registration system for handguns in Ohio?? IF SO, then that will have to be complied with, BEFORE the handguns can be possessed.

An Ohio FFL (who would be the recipient processing the transfer) would know what the legal requirements are. Have a family member contact "their" FFL and see what he says.

Shipping through FFLs is a legal method, and while a bit costly, ensures that all applicable laws will be followed.

 

[Frank Ettin]

....Frank, did I miss anything?

Nope, but I'm going to add this since there always seems to be so much confusion on the issue:

Under federal law, any transfer of a gun (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. And a handgun must be transferred through an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.). There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

...I can't help but wonder how this makes us "safer".

While the efficacy of the law could be subject to debate, federal law relating to the transfer of a gun from a resident of one State to a resident of another was enacted over 45 years ago by the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA68). The law was Congress' response to enormous public pressure after the assassinations by gunfire of three wildly popular public figures -- JFK, RFK and MLK. The law was intended to regulate and control the interstate transfer of firearms. It was structured so that to the extent reasonably possible any transfer of possession of a gun from a resident of one State to a resident of another would have to go through an FFL.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Shipping through FFLs is a legal method, and while a bit costly, ensures that all applicable laws will be followed.

If shipping is the chosen means of delivery (to the Ohio FFL), then using a Texas FFL to initiate the shipment may not be more costly at all. A private party can't ship handguns by USPS, so that leaves us with UPS or FedEx. The company regulations of both companies require that handguns be shipped by 2nd Day Air, which is expensive. Some people suggest getting around this by declaring the contents as "machine parts," but the federal law covering interstate shipments of firearms by common carrier requires that the carrier be informed that the package contains a firearm, so playing the "machine parts" game is illegal.

2nd Day Air is expensive. On the flip side, most handguns can fit into a USPS flat rate box and an FFL can walk into a post office and mail it for $6.80. A larger flat rate box holding multiple handguns can be mailed (by an FFL) for $13.45 (medium) to $18.75 (large). Weight doesn't matter; "If it fits, it ships."

If you can find a local FFL who isn't interested in retiring just on the transfer fees for your shipment, it may be cheaper to go through a local FFL and mail the guns rather than ship them yourself by UPS or FedEx. And that also eliminates any problem of the receiving FFL not accepting guns from non-FFLs.

 

[Sevens]

If all the folks who you intend to pass handguns out to reside in the state of Ohio, and you are talking about a number of handguns -- I know the easiest, legal, cheapest and BEST way to do it... assuming you travel and visit these folks on occasion.

Simply drive all of these guns to Ohio and have a pre-arranged FFL ready and willing to do transfers for you.

All you will need to provide is your driver's license or ID so the FFL has that info, and you will need each of the recipients to come and pick up their guns, doing a 4473 and a NICS check. There will be a fee for each handgun, my FFL in particular charges $20.

Obviously, it is not "free" to drive yourself all the way to Ohio, but if this is something you do anyway... this absolutely beats all the hassle with shipping and using an FFL on both ends. A friendly and flexible Ohio FFL will (likely?) even have no problem with you showing up on an agreed date -- and then holding the handguns for a few days until each of your recipients can come and do their form and transfer.

 

[Armorer-at-Law]

As others have said, to comply with federal and Ohio law (Ohio gun laws are generally very pro-freedom), get the handguns to an Ohio FFL near the recipient relative. That can be by you bringing them in person, shipping them yourself, or shipping them through a Texas FFL. As described above, the Texas FFL has access to better shipping rates and may save you money in the long run.

The Ohio FFL will do the transfer to the recipients with a NICS background check. The transfer fee around here is generally about $25 to $35. That is a small price for the recipient to pay for your generosity.

Some FFLs do not like to receive firearms by mail from a non-FFL. The law allows it, but some of them make up their own obstacles. It is critical they have full information on who the firearm came from, and some may have been burned on this in the past, so choose not to accept them.

 

[carguychris]

Minor thread hijack...

I think part of the reasoning for making it necessary to do the transfer of a handgun in the state of residents of the receiver of a handgun is to [e]nsure that its legal to posses in that state.

Basically yes, albeit in the sense that local licensing and registration rules would presumably be followed, and less in the sense that the handgun would be a forbidden "assault weapon" in and of itself.

The in-state requirement was imposed by the 1968 GCA, which also restricted long gun sales to adjacent states only, with the additional caveat that the buyer's home state had to pass a law allowing such adjacent-state purchases. Of course, this was in an era when state handgun licensing and registration was generally more common than today, while state-issued carry permits were less common, and the concept of near-instant nationwide background checks seemed like a pipe dream.

Of course, a major unwritten reason for the restrictions was to get Southern legislators on board by better assuring that folks of a certain skin tone couldn't lawfully buy guns up North out-of-state, as the local sporting goods merchants were mostly of that other skin tone and wouldn't sell to "those people", and nor would local LEOs grant them "may-issue" handgun licenses.

The adjacent-state long-gun restriction went away with the 1986 FOPA. The in-state handgun restriction should have gone away with the Brady Bill, but I bet you can make an even better guess as to why that didn't happen.

 

[spacecoast]

Some FFLs (one I know in fact) charge a set fee (say $25) for the first transfer and a reduced rate on additional guns transferred at the same time (like $10 each). If you can find one that does this you could potentially transfer 6-8 guns for about $100. Not a bad deal.

 

[carguychris]

^^^ Good point spacecoast. FWIW the reason for the discount is that the FFL only has to execute a single Form 4473 and NICS check; each firearm still has to be listed on the 4473 and the FFL's record book individually, but this still saves a good deal of time.

Be aware, however, that this procedure will require the FFL to execute a Form 3310.4 "Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers".

 

[spacecoast]

Be aware, however, that this procedure will require the FFL to execute a Form 3310.4 "Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers".

The most I've ever done is three at a time (as a buyer). I'm not aware that the form was filed, does it require my signature?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Link to the form: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/f...pistols-and-revolvers-atf-form-33104/download

It does not require the buyer's (transferee's) signature, only the FFL's.

 

[Frank Ettin]

The OP has his answer. Let's close with a comprehensive look at federal interstate gun transfer law.

I've posted this any number of times here and on other forums.

Federal Law on the Transfer of a Gun From a Resident of One State to a Resident of another State​

This law has been in effect for over 45 years. It was enacted by the Gun Control Act of 1968.

• Under federal law, any transfer of a gun (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. And a handgun must be transferred through an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.). There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.
  
  
• In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.
  
  
• In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.C] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.
  
  
• There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.
  
  
• The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).
  
  
• Here's what the statutes say:

  18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts
  
  (a) It shall be unlawful—
  ...
  
  (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph
  
  

  (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,
  
  (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and
  
  (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;​

  
  ...
  
  (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
  
  

  (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
  
  (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

  
  ....
  
  (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
  ...
  
  (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph
  
  

  (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and
  
  (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

  
  ...