I have an old beat up Parker double that belonged to my Great Grandfather. It has the damascus barrels and is not in the best condition. I've been thinking that someday I might have Briley Mfg., or someone else, sleeve the barrels and rehab it so that I can hunt with it again. Has anyone done that? How did it work?
Parker Shotgun restoration
- Thread starter ATTICUS
- Start date
I've heard a fair amount of testimonial evidence from folks that have done this, and little has been negative. A couple of small things.
Parker supplied all gauges in a couple of frame sizes. If a heavy framed(for the gauge) shotgun gets sleeved down, one could end up with a working 16 ga that weighs well over 8 lbs, for instance.
Sleeving takes the shotgun down one size, a 10 ga becomes a 12, a 12, 16, etc.
And, like most other gun mods, the value of the shotgun will not be increased much by doing this. I realize that's not important for a family gun, but for insurance purposes,etc.
I really like the idea of folks using family guns, you might have seen a thread here recently I started.
Briley's tubes are dismountable, so nothing is lost except money if the job doesn't suit you.
Parker supplied all gauges in a couple of frame sizes. If a heavy framed(for the gauge) shotgun gets sleeved down, one could end up with a working 16 ga that weighs well over 8 lbs, for instance.
Sleeving takes the shotgun down one size, a 10 ga becomes a 12, a 12, 16, etc.
And, like most other gun mods, the value of the shotgun will not be increased much by doing this. I realize that's not important for a family gun, but for insurance purposes,etc.
I really like the idea of folks using family guns, you might have seen a thread here recently I started.
Briley's tubes are dismountable, so nothing is lost except money if the job doesn't suit you.
Parker
How come I don' t have any relatives with old Parkers
dang it!
I believe there is a difference between Sleeving and sub gauge tubes. The tubes are designed to allow you to shoot smaller bores in your gun and are used heavily by skeet shooters because they compete in 4 gauges. Sleeving is actually a relining of the barrels to strenghthen them and allow use of modern shells. To resleeve a gun like a Parker you may have to go to a specialist like the Del Grego family in Ilion NY.
You might want to get some back copies of Double Gun Journal. An excellent quarterly publication dedicated to double guns. There are many articles in the mag about old guns that have been restored.
I find it interesting that the British do not have the paranoia about Damascus that we do. Many of the old guns are shot in Britain after having been "Proofed" by a proof house. Some Damascus was well made and will last for centuries.
Another excellent source book is Blacks Wing and Clay. A listing of shotgun related businesses that is updated yearly. You should be able to find this book in any well stocked bookstore like Borders or Waldens. They have a section listing people who restore old guns.
Geoff Ross
How come I don' t have any relatives with old Parkers
dang it!I believe there is a difference between Sleeving and sub gauge tubes. The tubes are designed to allow you to shoot smaller bores in your gun and are used heavily by skeet shooters because they compete in 4 gauges. Sleeving is actually a relining of the barrels to strenghthen them and allow use of modern shells. To resleeve a gun like a Parker you may have to go to a specialist like the Del Grego family in Ilion NY.
You might want to get some back copies of Double Gun Journal. An excellent quarterly publication dedicated to double guns. There are many articles in the mag about old guns that have been restored.
I find it interesting that the British do not have the paranoia about Damascus that we do. Many of the old guns are shot in Britain after having been "Proofed" by a proof house. Some Damascus was well made and will last for centuries.
Another excellent source book is Blacks Wing and Clay. A listing of shotgun related businesses that is updated yearly. You should be able to find this book in any well stocked bookstore like Borders or Waldens. They have a section listing people who restore old guns.
Geoff Ross
As I understand the term "sleeving" it means chopping off damaged barrels just ahead of the chamber, reaming out the chamber and inserting a whole new set of barrel tubes into the chambers and permanently welding them to the chamber. This is not an unusual procedure. It is how Beretta, Browning and other makers currently make their new barrels.
Properly done, it is very difficult to tell if a gun has been sleeved and it's not unusual in older English guns. English guns that go through this procedure must be reproofed and identified as sleeved guns when sold. It usually drops the price on English guns considerably if they are sleeved and some consider them the best buys on the market if you want a gun that says Purdey, Holland or Churchill.
Sleeving a gun is not cheap and it would destroy any collector value the old Parker might have. I wouldn't worry about collector value though if the gun is in rough shape.
The better option is to go with the subgauge tubes and drop down a gauge. I would also have the gun examined by a competent smith to ensure it is on the face and is otherwise sound. I would send it to Briley's to have them check the gun out and do the work if they thought it was safe to do so.
Whether the expense is worth it is up to you. Some guns deserve an honorable retirement and a well-used damascus Parker would be a classic addition to the wall of a den or family room.
Paul
Properly done, it is very difficult to tell if a gun has been sleeved and it's not unusual in older English guns. English guns that go through this procedure must be reproofed and identified as sleeved guns when sold. It usually drops the price on English guns considerably if they are sleeved and some consider them the best buys on the market if you want a gun that says Purdey, Holland or Churchill.
Sleeving a gun is not cheap and it would destroy any collector value the old Parker might have. I wouldn't worry about collector value though if the gun is in rough shape.
The better option is to go with the subgauge tubes and drop down a gauge. I would also have the gun examined by a competent smith to ensure it is on the face and is otherwise sound. I would send it to Briley's to have them check the gun out and do the work if they thought it was safe to do so.
Whether the expense is worth it is up to you. Some guns deserve an honorable retirement and a well-used damascus Parker would be a classic addition to the wall of a den or family room.
Paul
K80Geoff
I have been reading quite extensively about British guns lately and I think the fact that only the upper class could afford to buy a gun from the fabled makers like Holland, Purdey, Westley Richards, Rigby allowed them to keep their prices up to the extent that a quality damascus barrel could be made. These guns were taken care of by informed shooters and expected to last generations.
In America the mass market demanded a cheap gun and therefore only so much quality could be built in. A Montgomery Ward or Sears shotgun or fill in the blank can only be so good or the price will be such that you can afford the name brand. Jes a thot.
I have been reading quite extensively about British guns lately and I think the fact that only the upper class could afford to buy a gun from the fabled makers like Holland, Purdey, Westley Richards, Rigby allowed them to keep their prices up to the extent that a quality damascus barrel could be made. These guns were taken care of by informed shooters and expected to last generations.
In America the mass market demanded a cheap gun and therefore only so much quality could be built in. A Montgomery Ward or Sears shotgun or fill in the blank can only be so good or the price will be such that you can afford the name brand. Jes a thot.
Big G
I would not consider Parker Shotguns as "Cheap" The Parker was a well made gun that was, in many ways, superior to the British "Best guns".
Parkers, and Foxes, L C Smiths, LeFevers and Winchester 21s were designed for the American style of hunting, which required a sturdier gun to take the abuse of walking through brush and worse, or the harsh environment of a duck blind. The guns were made to take a lifetime of abuse and keep shooting.
British guns were generally made for the so called "sport" of sitting in a "Butt" and having birds driven to you. The guns were made lighter and fancier than their American counterparts. Often the owner had a matched pair and used a loader to assist him.
Double Gun Journal had an article last year about two gents who tried to blow up an old rusted set of Parker Damascus barrels. They eventually succeeded after many tries of successively more potent loads.
The bad rap damascus received was generally due to cheap imported guns of poor quality.
I DO NOT recommend using a damascus barrelled gun with modern loads, they were designed for black powder. Many people do shoot them with light modern loads quite successfully. Old classics should be treated gently and checked for serviceability.
I hope Atticus restores the gun
Geoff Ross
I would not consider Parker Shotguns as "Cheap" The Parker was a well made gun that was, in many ways, superior to the British "Best guns".
Parkers, and Foxes, L C Smiths, LeFevers and Winchester 21s were designed for the American style of hunting, which required a sturdier gun to take the abuse of walking through brush and worse, or the harsh environment of a duck blind. The guns were made to take a lifetime of abuse and keep shooting.
British guns were generally made for the so called "sport" of sitting in a "Butt" and having birds driven to you. The guns were made lighter and fancier than their American counterparts. Often the owner had a matched pair and used a loader to assist him.
Double Gun Journal had an article last year about two gents who tried to blow up an old rusted set of Parker Damascus barrels. They eventually succeeded after many tries of successively more potent loads.
The bad rap damascus received was generally due to cheap imported guns of poor quality.
I DO NOT recommend using a damascus barrelled gun with modern loads, they were designed for black powder. Many people do shoot them with light modern loads quite successfully. Old classics should be treated gently and checked for serviceability.
I hope Atticus restores the gun
Geoff Ross
K80Geoff
Thanks for the clarification.
I meant that US manufacturers, afraid of product liability, always put disclaimers on ammo like "only for use in modern firearms in good condition." "Do not use in Damascus or twist steel barrels."
I didn't mean that Parker was a bad marque. I understand it is a premier shotgun. The average shooter in America has closer to a Sears Roebuck shotgun than a Parker, however.
I would think that the Parker, Lefever, LC Smith, and so on have not been made since the great Depression. The newest gun would be about 70 years old. I know Marlin made an LC Smith during the 60s and 70s but that is probably not the same as the original marque.
The older books I've read particularly condemn Belgian shotguns and handguns as being cheap, shoddy, and dangerous. Funny, since the FN built Belgian Brownings of the 20th century are among the nicest production guns I've ever seen.
Thanks for the clarification.
I meant that US manufacturers, afraid of product liability, always put disclaimers on ammo like "only for use in modern firearms in good condition." "Do not use in Damascus or twist steel barrels."
I didn't mean that Parker was a bad marque. I understand it is a premier shotgun. The average shooter in America has closer to a Sears Roebuck shotgun than a Parker, however.
I would think that the Parker, Lefever, LC Smith, and so on have not been made since the great Depression. The newest gun would be about 70 years old. I know Marlin made an LC Smith during the 60s and 70s but that is probably not the same as the original marque.
The older books I've read particularly condemn Belgian shotguns and handguns as being cheap, shoddy, and dangerous. Funny, since the FN built Belgian Brownings of the 20th century are among the nicest production guns I've ever seen.
The Parker was in such sad shape when I inherited from my Dad that I could hardly stand to look at it. So I cold blued the metal, and patched, stained, oiled the stock and forearm myself. I tried to do the plum rust finish myself but couldn't get it right. I't looks much better now, but I'm sure the collectability is gone. It would thrill me to no end however to do some rabbit or pheasant hunting with it. Wishfull thinking on my part maybe, but something tells me it would make a few people upstairs smile as well.