Parker Bros. Barrels
- Thread starter ConRich
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
You are right to be concerned. Parker used some of the best Damascus of any American maker, but it is just not strong enough for smokeless shells. Or it might have been once but all those seams attract corrosion and separation. Just because you have gotten away with it before does not mean it will last.
The Olin-Kodensha Parker Reproductions of a number of years ago were close enough copies that a set of their barrels could be used or fitted by gunsmith. But it would be tough to find them.
Briley lists a service of "sleeving" barrels. I THINK this means that they will use the breech end of your Damascus barrels as a monobloc for new steel barrels. Call them up and discuss the job with them:
http://www.briley.com/
It ain't cheap, $1600.
Or, you could get a set of their Companion tubes and shoot 20 gauge shells; less expensive at $449 a pair.
Only you can decide if it is worth that to keep Grandpa's gun in action. It is darned sure worth it as insurance for your hands and eyes. A Damascus barrel that lets go usually ruptures about where your front hand goes, that is where the barrel, made for black powder, is the thinnest and cannot handle the progressive burn of nitro.
Y'all be careful, now, you hear?
The Olin-Kodensha Parker Reproductions of a number of years ago were close enough copies that a set of their barrels could be used or fitted by gunsmith. But it would be tough to find them.
Briley lists a service of "sleeving" barrels. I THINK this means that they will use the breech end of your Damascus barrels as a monobloc for new steel barrels. Call them up and discuss the job with them:
http://www.briley.com/
It ain't cheap, $1600.
Or, you could get a set of their Companion tubes and shoot 20 gauge shells; less expensive at $449 a pair.
Only you can decide if it is worth that to keep Grandpa's gun in action. It is darned sure worth it as insurance for your hands and eyes. A Damascus barrel that lets go usually ruptures about where your front hand goes, that is where the barrel, made for black powder, is the thinnest and cannot handle the progressive burn of nitro.
Y'all be careful, now, you hear?
Shotguns and grenades have similar working pressures.
Some Damascus barrels may be fired even today without harm. The trouble lies in that we do not know which ones. The penalty for being wrong is rather severe.
Besides Briley, Orvis had and may still have a service where they install full length titanium liners in old barrels. A 12 gauge may be a new 16 or 20 this way.
Not cheap, but in the case of a good Parker, well worth it.
Some Damascus barrels may be fired even today without harm. The trouble lies in that we do not know which ones. The penalty for being wrong is rather severe.
Besides Briley, Orvis had and may still have a service where they install full length titanium liners in old barrels. A 12 gauge may be a new 16 or 20 this way.
Not cheap, but in the case of a good Parker, well worth it.
Replacing the barrels sounds too expensive for me. It has been sugested that I reload some black powder cartridges for it. I have been reloading rifle and pistol ammo for about 40yrs but have never reloaded shotgun cartridges.Would this be a way for me to safetly enjoy shooting the Parker with it's Damascus barrels? If so, I'll need some reloading data. Thanks for the help, Rich
I would suggest perusing the Double Gun BBS HERE
They have quite a discussion on Damascus bbls going on, which I admit not having read through.
A question posted there will probably give you more info than you need, but might give insight as to the serviceability of the barrels.
Parker used quality barrels, most imported from Belgium. I do not know if the Damascus BBLS are domestic or imported, but I am sure someone from the Double Gun BBS will know.
They have quite a discussion on Damascus bbls going on, which I admit not having read through.
A question posted there will probably give you more info than you need, but might give insight as to the serviceability of the barrels.
Parker used quality barrels, most imported from Belgium. I do not know if the Damascus BBLS are domestic or imported, but I am sure someone from the Double Gun BBS will know.
I just opened my new issue of "Double Gun Journal" (Summer 2005). On page 28 is an article entitled "Finding out for Myself" dealing with the quality of Parker barrels.
This is part 9 of a series of articles dealing with the strength of old barrels. Five years ago the same author did a test on a set of Parker Damascus barrels and deliberately shot increasingly heavy loads untill the barrels blew up!!!.
The author claims Damascus is just as strong as Fluid steel of the same era. His tests seem to bear this out.
DGJ is a bit on the pricey side and is published four times a year. Back issues are available. Check it out!
The journal is available in the major chain bookstores.
This is part 9 of a series of articles dealing with the strength of old barrels. Five years ago the same author did a test on a set of Parker Damascus barrels and deliberately shot increasingly heavy loads untill the barrels blew up!!!.
The author claims Damascus is just as strong as Fluid steel of the same era. His tests seem to bear this out.
DGJ is a bit on the pricey side and is published four times a year. Back issues are available. Check it out!
The journal is available in the major chain bookstores.
Marksman30
Inactive
Follow K80's advice.
Many people are safely shooting damascus shotguns and have been for years.
I personally prefer them, as there will never be another damascus barrel made, at least not by the original methods.
Whatever you do, DO NOT alter the barrels on your Parker. Parkers are collectible, but really only if they are in original condition. Any of the above suggestions will drastically reduce the value of your gun, while costing you a fair amount to do so.
My best suggestion is to read, read, read, and ask alot of questions. I was in the same position as you are a few years ago. I also held alot of the same erroneous opinions as stated above.
I am NOT saying your gun is safe to shoot, that will need judgement and experience that you don't have yet. Send it to a competent SxS gunsmith (NOT the local bolt action guy) for evaluation and opinion.
Load blackpowder if you like, that was the first step I took until I became more familiar with these older guns and in particular damascus guns. If you look there are now lots of specialty ammo manufacturers that load appropriate pressure ammunition.
Remember, your gun may or may not be safe to shoot, but don't start wrecking it before you know what you are doing.
My best suggestion is to follow the advice to post your questions on the BBS at www.gunshop.com
OK, let the flames begin. I found this post via a google search for something else and have not ever posted here before. I will admit it is unlikely I will return, but the misinformation above demanded another option for this question.
Best,
Mike
Many people are safely shooting damascus shotguns and have been for years.
I personally prefer them, as there will never be another damascus barrel made, at least not by the original methods.
Whatever you do, DO NOT alter the barrels on your Parker. Parkers are collectible, but really only if they are in original condition. Any of the above suggestions will drastically reduce the value of your gun, while costing you a fair amount to do so.
My best suggestion is to read, read, read, and ask alot of questions. I was in the same position as you are a few years ago. I also held alot of the same erroneous opinions as stated above.
I am NOT saying your gun is safe to shoot, that will need judgement and experience that you don't have yet. Send it to a competent SxS gunsmith (NOT the local bolt action guy) for evaluation and opinion.
Load blackpowder if you like, that was the first step I took until I became more familiar with these older guns and in particular damascus guns. If you look there are now lots of specialty ammo manufacturers that load appropriate pressure ammunition.
Remember, your gun may or may not be safe to shoot, but don't start wrecking it before you know what you are doing.
My best suggestion is to follow the advice to post your questions on the BBS at www.gunshop.com
OK, let the flames begin. I found this post via a google search for something else and have not ever posted here before. I will admit it is unlikely I will return, but the misinformation above demanded another option for this question.
Best,
Mike
It was Sherman Bell in the Winter 1999 edition of Double Gun Journal who blew up a Parker damascus gun. It is a fascinating read. The gun used had a 2-5/8" chamber on the left and a gunsmith lengthened 2-3/4" on the right. Using 2-3/4" loads, the short chamber let go at 29,400 psi and the right at 31,620 -- almost three times the working pressure of a standard 12 gauge load. 
The shells fired at lower pressure levels showed clear pressure signs well before the Parker came apart.
The paragraph that jumped off the page in the Bell article is this one:
I know responsible and competent shotgunners who shoot Damascus guns. They had the guns measured and thoroughly checked over by competent double gun smiths before firing a shot. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt beside them or shoot their guns with modern loads that are right for the gun.
Paul
The shells fired at lower pressure levels showed clear pressure signs well before the Parker came apart. The paragraph that jumped off the page in the Bell article is this one:
My view about the safety of shooting any particular gun? The quality originally built into a barrel and its present condition are the most important guidelines for it use.
Labeling all twist-steel barrels as "unsafe" and all fluid-steel barrels as "safe" is turning a blind eye to these guidelines. This philopshy would damn the most pristine, highest quality Damascus barrel while giving a pass to cheap, pitted, fluid-steel tubes. This is unfair and misleadng and could be dangerous.
Labeling all twist-steel barrels as "unsafe" and all fluid-steel barrels as "safe" is turning a blind eye to these guidelines. This philopshy would damn the most pristine, highest quality Damascus barrel while giving a pass to cheap, pitted, fluid-steel tubes. This is unfair and misleadng and could be dangerous.
I know responsible and competent shotgunners who shoot Damascus guns. They had the guns measured and thoroughly checked over by competent double gun smiths before firing a shot. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt beside them or shoot their guns with modern loads that are right for the gun.
Paul
I have to agree with Bell.There were good and bad and even fake damascus barrels. The fake ones were etched to look like the real thing. Considering it's a Parker it should have a good barrel. Any gun that is old should be handled gentily. I would have it inspected and if ok just shoot target loads.
the possum
New member
Here's another idea.
Go to Cabella's website, and search for chamber inserts. These are short tubes of steel that just fit in the chamber, so you can shoot 20 gauge or .410 out of your 12 gauge gun. Only cost like 20 bucks. I would've thought the pattern would have been ruined by shooting a 20 gauge wad down the bigger bore, but my friend and I busted claybirds just fine with 'em. Also, since they do not go the full length of the barrels, you won't screw up that wonderful balance, though you'll have to clean more due to the poor gas seal.
I have a nice old damascus barreled LC Smith, and I shoot black powder shells out of it.
Much ado is made about the "seams" getting weaker on these barrels. This would only be true if there was a welding flaw from the day it was made, and I'd like to think the corrosive nature of black powder would have eaten at such a flaw back in great grandpa's day. In other words, If there was a bad weld, it would have failed long ago. Properly done, there is no "seam". The different metals are forge welded (just to be clear, this is not the same as modern welding where the weld only joins the surface. Forge welding fuses the metals all the way through) into one solid piece, and polished to a smooth continuous surface. Even if the bore was neglected to the point it was pitted, it would deteriorate no quicker than a plain steel one.
Mete-
I was hoping you'd have some thoughts on how to make sure the barrel was sound. I've heard that magnafluxing would work. ?
Go to Cabella's website, and search for chamber inserts. These are short tubes of steel that just fit in the chamber, so you can shoot 20 gauge or .410 out of your 12 gauge gun. Only cost like 20 bucks. I would've thought the pattern would have been ruined by shooting a 20 gauge wad down the bigger bore, but my friend and I busted claybirds just fine with 'em. Also, since they do not go the full length of the barrels, you won't screw up that wonderful balance, though you'll have to clean more due to the poor gas seal.
I have a nice old damascus barreled LC Smith, and I shoot black powder shells out of it.
Much ado is made about the "seams" getting weaker on these barrels. This would only be true if there was a welding flaw from the day it was made, and I'd like to think the corrosive nature of black powder would have eaten at such a flaw back in great grandpa's day. In other words, If there was a bad weld, it would have failed long ago. Properly done, there is no "seam". The different metals are forge welded (just to be clear, this is not the same as modern welding where the weld only joins the surface. Forge welding fuses the metals all the way through) into one solid piece, and polished to a smooth continuous surface. Even if the bore was neglected to the point it was pitted, it would deteriorate no quicker than a plain steel one.
Mete-
I was hoping you'd have some thoughts on how to make sure the barrel was sound. I've heard that magnafluxing would work. ?