Parallel Balancing Cylinders Cog System

Z

Zima

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Parallel Balancing Cylinders Cog Operation

Or also could be called 'Parallel Opposite-Reciprocating Cog Operation'

There is a spring in front of the upper cylinder (counterweight) ending somewhere along the barrel and another spring in the back of the lower cylinder (bolt) ending at some point in front of the base of the buttstock or even within the main body of the rifle.

The stationary cog joins the lower front end of the upper cylinder (counterweight) with the upper back end of the lower cylinder (bolt) by teeth.

Every time after you fire the energy of the cartridge pushes the lower cylinder (bolt) back. This lower cylinder (bolt) has a teeth track along the length of it that when pushed back rotates the stationary cog which in turn moves the upper cylinder (counterweight) forward in the same way. When the upper cylinder (counterweight) reaches the maximum drive forward it is pushed back by the forward spring which in turn rotates the cog again which in turn drives the lower cylinder (bolt) back forward chambering a new round.

Would this system eliminate or at least balance and thus decrease recoil?
Would an added gas operation still be required to decrease the weight/size of components?

I have another version of this too where everything takes place along the length of the bolt tube. But it is slightly more complex than this version so I will make a new thread for that one in the future.

For now I'd like some expert opinion on this version. Is it feasible? Has it been tried before and just deemed unworkable or is this really (hopefully) a jackpot once in a century idea I just came up with all by myself?

:D I'm excited to read all your responses!
 
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You'll have to show me a drawing or something, because I'm not entirely sure I'm following.

It sounds something like what the Russians tried with their AN-94 and their new AK (can't remember the name of it) that has a counterbalance system that is supposed to reduce muzzle climb in fully automatic fire. It also seems to have an element of a delayed blowback system (which can be somewhat difficult and abusive on both the rifle and cartridges).
 
I know what you're saying. The simple explanation is you would have a counterweight that pushes forward as the bolt pushes rearward, thus taking the motion of the bolt out of the recoil equation.

I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish. If you're looking for a method of dampening recoil (which is what I think your intent is), then you're barking up the wrong tree. Bolt mass shifting accounts for very little perceived recoil, and even point of aim shift following recoil. Gas operated rifles usually have less felt recoil and POA shift than bolt rifles of like weight, barrel length, and caliber. The only way your system would dampen recoil would be to increase resistance, which would require more gas to be ported to operate the action, which would ultimately reduce the energy (and velocity) of the cartridge fired.

The only weapon system that may could benefit from this would be something belt fed. This would add more weight to an already heavy system, and hence be a hindrance. State the problem you're trying to solve. Hydraulics could be an option.
 
If you've got one weight moving forward, and one moving backwards at the same time, won't their motion just cancel each other out, negating any impact on recoil reduction?

Maybe if you had the forward weight significantly heavier than the rearward moving weight it may have an effect on recoil, but that would really throw off the balance of the rifle, and, add a bunch of weight I wouldn't want to carry around.
 
If I am envisioning your system correctly, it would dampen FELT recoil a bit, the work being done moving the weights would spread/slow the recoil impulse a bit, resulting in a softer "feel"

It would also reduce actual recoil, because added parts add weight, and added weight reduces recoil.

I do wonder however, the effect on accuracy (system vibration) with your mechanism. It seems to me to be something more suitable for an artillery piece than a small arm.
 
If (and IMhO these are a couple of big 'if's') we are taking the new poster seriously and if he is trying to really reduce recoil then I think it would behoove him to take a look at the old Browning Recoiless Shotgun, a seriously odd duck if there ever was one.
 
The only effect I seem this having is to increase weight, which would deduce felt recoil a bit. Any weapon with a locking bolt (which is kind of mandatory for a center fire rifle), will be extremely difficult to reduce actual recoil produced by the firing of the round without reducing the power of the round or adding weight (resistance) to the firearm. There is another factor to recoil, and that is the shift of the bolt. This is the only factor that your system would help reduce. An AK has a massive BCG and piston, and it is thrown back rather violently by a stout gas system, so designed so it could compress that car shock that they call a return spring. That return spring was designed heavy to force the bolt closed with dirty ammo, grit in the chamber, and muddy locking lugs. An AK in one example of a firearm where the actions adds significantly to the recoil character of the gun because of this. So your system could improve the recoil characteristics in a gun like the AK. Many belt fed weapon actions operate that violently as well. The bolt of an AR10 or AR15 adds very little to the recoil characteristic, and would benefit very little. Even with heavier recoiling rounds (ala AR10).

If you are trying to dampen the actual recoil impulse produced by the round, you could possibly create a system where the barrel, bolt, and carrier all travel rearward together for a short distance, dampened by some force (spring, hydraulic buffer, etc) before the bolt unlocks and continues rearward in the cycle of operation. Making such a creature to be accurate and reliable would be quite an engineering feat. Not saying it couldn't be done, but it wouldn't be easy.
 
If you are trying to dampen the actual recoil impulse produced by the round, you could possibly create a system where the barrel, bolt, and carrier all travel rearward together for a short distance, dampened by some force (spring, hydraulic buffer, etc) before the bolt unlocks and continues rearward in the cycle of operation. Making such a creature to be accurate and reliable would be quite an engineering feat. Not saying it couldn't be done, but it wouldn't be easy.
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What you just described is exactly how the M2 Browning machine gun works (and essentially how the M1917 /1919 works), and "Ma Duece" is SO accurate that the dispersal factor needed for best machine gun work had to be built into the ammunition!

Accurate and reliable? Abso-freaking-lutely! About as much as anything man made can be.

The system works very well, where absolute lightness of the mechanism is not the primary goal.
 
I believe other large caliber rifles in .50 BMG and 20mm have a similar reciprocating action system. The Russian AN-94 works on a strange pulley system where the first shot pulls the action rearward in the frame and picks up the second round along the way, firing it in the same travel and supposedly creating a single recoil impulse. It resumes normal automatic operation afterwards.

The AK-107 has a forward reciprocating counterweight that is supposed to virtually eliminate muzzle rise on full auto.

The H&K G11 had a reciprocating action of some type also, but I know very little about that one.
 
a system where the barrel, bolt, and carrier all travel rearward together for a short distance,
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This is the text book definition for a recoil operated system. Although the "carrier" is often called barrel extension or some other term.
 
Recoil begins when the bullet begins to move. In order to not destroy the gun, the breech must remain closed until the bullet exits or is close to exiting the barrel. In other words, the recoil is over and done before the bolt begins to move, whether the gun is a locked breech or a blowback. The system described might dampen some of the residual effects of the recoil, but at a considerable cost in weight and complexity.

Jim
 
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