"Palm Pistol" Project for Disabled Shooters

D

dr.eimer1

Inactive
I am working as a consultant with a firearm designer, Mr. Matthew Carmel, of Constitution Arms (www.ConstitutionArms.com), who has manufactured a hand gun specifically for the disabled. See www.palmpistol.com. He has also designed a carbine for small game hunting.

We are conducting a study to evaluate the extent to which the design mitigates the problems disabled shooters may have when using a traditional hand gun. the reason for the study is to support efforts to convince the FDA to re-list the design as a "medical device" under 21 CFR 890.5050 and .5073. The end goal is to seek reimbursement under Medicare and/or private health insurance for use of the device with disabled shooters.

The study is being conducted at the Delaware Valley Sports Center in Philadelphia. We are looking for disabled shooters to participate.

1. Study participants will receive two to three FREE instructional sessions with the .38 Special Palm Pistol and also, with a standard small J-frame .38 Special revolver and a "user-friendly" traditional 9mm semi-auto.

2. All study participants will also receive a discount on the purchase of the Palm Pistol in exchange for their participation.

Please let me know if you are aware of people who are interested in participating.

Bruce Eimer, Ph.D.
dr.eimer1@comcast.net
215-947-7867 (947-STOP)
www.PersonalDefenseSolutions.com
www.BruceEimer.com
 
Single shot is better then nothing. Anyway, interesting concept!

Although a modern version of the "Protector Palm Pistol" which had a revolving cylinder would be probably better suited for self defense (on the other hand, it fired the rather anemic .32 RF). Nevertheless, an interesting concept, wish you luck with testing.
 
This is really awesome. I get what people are saying about single shot but you have to start somewhere! Better than nothing!
 
Specifically, it is designed for patients who wish to participate in and enjoy recreational target shooting but heretofore could not due to medical conditions affecting manual dexterity and/or hand strength, including grip limitations. It is also suitable for personal self defense.
Click to expand...

First of all, I think it is admirable to develop such a product. I won't go into details but I am a big proponent of "disability ministry", if you will. But I have to say this device would be much more suited to the recreational aspect and much less suited to the self defense aspect. Trying to claim this is a medical device is also a real stretch, but at $1350/unit, that is probably the only way you'll get any real sales numbers, I.e. if insurance or Medicaid was subsidizing it. Best of luck.
 
Shouldn't it have a laser sight? That would help with the "target" shooting pitch.

I know of one vet who may be interested. He lost both legs and an arm when he stepped on a land mine in Nam. I'll email him this info.
 
I have to ask if the pistol passes muster with BATFE, which has frequently ruled that "things" that shoot but don't look like guns fall into the AOW category.*

I think a better approach for the handicapped would be something like a J-frame with a full grip trigger, something like the old Colt 1878 "Alaskan" (yes, I know). That would allow a person with weak hands to fire by "squeezing" the whole gun and it would be a 5/6 shot.

*The original palm pistols are antiques, so AFAIK there has never been a question on the status of a modern gun of that general type.

Jim
 
I would not suggest one to anyone that I know. I have numerous thoughts on this that just leave it with no credibility in my own assessment.

One of the most Important concerns is that you have one shot from something that isn't even identifiable as a handgun. No visual deterrent, and once that only shot is fired, the shooter is completely, totally helpless.

I really hate this idea. I just can't see I it successfully stopping attacker's.
 
James K said:
I have to ask if the pistol passes muster with BATFE, which has frequently ruled that "things" that shoot but don't look like guns fall into the AOW category.*

I think a better approach for the handicapped would be something like a J-frame with a full grip trigger, something like the old Colt 1878 "Alaskan" (yes, I know). That would allow a person with weak hands to fire by "squeezing" the whole gun and it would be a 5/6 shot.

*The original palm pistols are antiques, so AFAIK there has never been a question on the status of a modern gun of that general type.

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim, I was wondering this too, but when I went online to the webiste given in the OP, it actually links to a pdf copy of the ATF letter that states that it does meet the definition of "firearm" and "pistol"

That said, the letter also states the wepaon is to be chambered in 9x19, whereas the website and OP state that it is chambered in 38 special. I don't know how much difference that makes.

That said, I think it's a neat idea, but again it's a derringer more than anything else. Granted, it may be the most ergonomic and easy to fire derringer in the world, but comparing it to a J frame and a 9mm pistol might be an unfair comparasin.
 
The Brain Injury Group of Washington just had our second shooting event a week ago. We had one person that had a rifle set up with a blow tube. The rest of us shot conventional firearms.

Your design is nothing new. What is new is single shot capability which is useless.

I would suggest that you look at the vintage style palm pistol and do a redesign.

http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=palm+pistol
 
Better than nothing!
Click to expand...

"Nothing" is the lowest possible non-negative result. ANYTHING positive is better than nothing. "Better than nothing" is about the worst possible standard onto which to base an assessment of praise.

And, the problem of aiming, may make it worse than nothing, which I guess is something being assessed.

Interesting concept to give handicapped people a gun without sights or sighting mechanism to use for shooting in self defense. I am still trying to wrap my mind around how a person so disabled as to not be able to hold a normal gun would then have the ability to work this single shot pistol which appears to require use of many of the fingers to be able to fire.
 
But does one not have to start somewhere? If nothing is the first step then something is better than nothing, and then redesign is better than something... So if you follow that logic "better than nothing" is a fair assessment for a first draft that hasn't been modified for feedback yet. Just saying...

By saying better than nothing I'm saying "good, someone is taking time to look at the needs of a specific demographic, now lets take that idea and make it better."
 
Last edited:
It is nice that they decided to create " better than nothing," but there are already a lot of "better than nothing" items that are MUCH better than this. Mace, stun gun, super flashlight, even an air horn will be more effective than one shot that the attackers won't even notice unless one drops.

Let me explain "better than nothing."

Let's say that a person makes min I mum wage. For that matter, everyone needs more money. Where I toss a dime on the floor at a mall, as I sometimes do, nobody picks it up. Ill do that once in a while as I wait, and watch all of the people walk past "better than nothing."

I see people using this against some hardcore goon, and being badly injured or even killed. Spend the money learning other ways to avoid being hurt.better than nothing is feeding an airline bag of peanuts to the guy you just rescued from the desert. It's not going to kill him, but he's no better off than he was beforehand.

Once again, I HATE this idea. This is not a liberaror that was used in the worst case scenario against Nazi invaders. It is something that little old men will be carrying when people with bats accost him at the subway. Seriously, handing over your wallet and begging for your life is "better than nothing," and might even be better than using this thing.
 
I'm just getting a kick out of how my opinion that it is better than nothing seems to have upset people lol. There are tons of options out there yes but that doesn't negate the fact that this is still an option whether it is the best out there or not :)

Also congratulations on generalizing that people with handicaps are all little old men. My wife has spina bifida and I would rather she have this than nothing if this was the only option or what she was comfortable with. But I do agree that there are better options out there at the moment. HOWEVER, that doesn't negate the fact that I will congratulate this group for what they are trying to do.
 
Last edited:
Look, I agree with you. It is better than nothing. Assuming that your choices are to carry this, or carry nothing. All I'm saying is that this truly is better than going empty handed.. that isn't good enough. There are plenty of other options that are better than this. I'd ather give my 103 year old granny a canister of fart gas and a bigger battery for her wheel chair. Believe me, if a mugger thinks that my granny just loaded her diaper, he's unlikely to go through the pocket of her house coat.

Yep, that there is certainly better than nothing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top