Packs and bivy tents???

C

Cris

New member
We are planning an elk hunt in Colorado during bow season. Our plans are to pack into a wilderness area and hunt from a mobile camp. We do not have pack animals and can not afford a guided hunt so we will be carrying our camp on "our backs". I have a couple of questions about gear:
Has anyone had experience with the military bivy tents? Are these good for the mountians in September or should I go with a name brand, 3-4 season tent?
And, I need advice on a pack. I know I need an external frame pack, but are packs specifically made for hunting purposes (and if so where can I find them) or will the generic hiking pack (more especially the frame for packing game) work for this particular purpose. Thanks in advance for any and all advice.
 
As far as packs are concerned I know from personal experience that I can live wuite comfortably for about a month out of a US Army issued Large alice pack with frame and I've carried and still carry it quite loaded down. The frame did get bent "a bit" under the ammo I carried in Saudi and I've broken one during a jump, but hey that's all I carry when I go hiking.

As far as a military bivy tent is concerned, I don't like them very much. Especially if I was going hunting I'd get a high quality civillian tent that could afford me some room inside.

Of course all of my camping and hiking gear is given to me by Uncle Sam so I am biased. :D

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Walk softly and carry a big stick (Yeah I know I stole it)
 
Never had a "Bivy" Tent but I've looked hard at them. Can storms move in during that season? What elevation are you taking about? If you are going with a group I'd suggest a 3-4 season tent. The parts can be broken up and each person carry an equal? load.

I like a multi person tent for a few reason. It will be better able to stand the elements, you'll have more room and, most of all, y'all can hang out it in if the weather turns bad and BS.

As for a pack really all I've ever used are DOD issued. I really like the VECTOR pack. It holds alot of gear, rides comfortably for long halls and you could probably find one for a very reasonable price at an Army Surplus store.

Now, most gear I buy I get at Recreational Equipment Incorporated. They carry The Gear. They are not cheap but the old saying holds true "you get what you pay for." If you looking at buying any type of gear once look here and spend the $$.. they carry the best.

What type of food you looking at carrying in? Personal Stoves or going with camp fire and camp pots? There is alot to think about. ;)

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Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
Cris,
I don't mean to sound offensive, but you ain't done a lot of backpacking have you? While the trip you're discussing sounds like great fun, for novice backpackers it could be downright dangerous. Learning to camp comfortably with just what's on your back requires years of experience or at the very least one member of your party had better know what they're doing.
It takes a lot more than just a pack and a tent. You'll need cooking gear, cleaning gear, foul weather gear, first aid gear, hunting gear and more gear on top of gear. Good gear is a must and good gear ain't cheap!
You'll have to carry in all your food and water. Water is especially troublesome. Its heavy and awkward. Also as the containers begin to empty, it will start to slosh around swinging your pack with it.
I've been backpacking for years. For one weekend by myself, my pack will weigh 50 to 60 pounds. And just how far did you plan to carry all this?
And please don't say you'll live off the land or drink from streams etc. Because that is a disaster waiting to happen.
BTW: how are your land navagation skills? Can you use a compass or read a topographical map? Do you have a topo map of the area where you're going?
And what if you do get an elk? Just how many trips from your camp to your vehicle are you willing to make to pack it out?

Cris, please understand that I'm not trying to belittle you. But, if you want to do this you must know what you're up against.
Get your friends together, borrow some gear and take a couple of training campouts long before hunting season. Put on a full pack and spend the day hiking. Learn what your limits are. Learn what you need and what you don't.
With a little training and practice, this could be the trip of a lifetime.
But, to jump in blindly could be a matter of life and death.



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TFL's official "Curmudgeon Member" and damned proud of it!
 
The bivy sacks for sleeping bags are alright if all you are expecting is light dew. If it rains or there is a heavy dew you sleeping bag will still get wet. The large ALICE pack can carry all the gear you need for a long time, but water and food are a diffrent issue, it you are going over a week, expect some type if ressupply or foraging.
 
I'll agree with Grayfox on this one...

I live in Colorado and do extensive backpacking year-round. September is one of those months in the high country when, literally, anything can happen. I've been out in September when is was nice and sunny in the morning and snowing like crazy in the afternoon and all through the night.

I do think that even novice backpackers can can have a safe trip in the backcountry, but only if they are fully aware of what they should plan and educate themselves for. There's a great book, Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills, that gives you pretty much everything you need to know and prepare for a backcountry excursion - you can find it on amazon.

That said, I'll try to give you some suggestions on gear.

Backpack: If you are going to be doing any off-trail bushwhacking while wearing your pack loaded, I would highly suggest an internal frame pack. I prefer an internal frame even for on-trail use, but everyone has their preference. Give some real thought as to what kind of terrain you think you're likely to encounter and make your decision. Carrying a big load takes alot out of you, and the more you can mitigate the load the better. You'll have more energy to make a great shot! Of course, I'm not sure how well you can pack game out with an internal frame pack... I'll have to think about that one...

Bivy vs. Tent: I wouldn't suggest a bivy to ANY novice backpacker. They simply don't provide enough shelter for when things get rough. For September I would suggest a 3-4 season tent. You can rent one at just about any sporting goods store, including REI, in Colorado. Bivy's are nice and light, but there are really good tents out there that are under 5 pounds that could save you quite a bit of misery if the sh*t hits the fan.

I'll also echo Grayfox's comments about all the other gear you're going to need. It's going to add up! One thing, though, is that you can still filter water effectively in September since streams haven't frozen up much at this point. Definintely lightens the load when you don't have to pack all you water.

Hope this has helped. If you have more questions, just ask... And get that book!

Regards,
AKrob

[This message has been edited by AKrob (edited April 14, 2000).]
 
I have done several extended expeditions, up to three months, over hundreds of miles, with heavy weight, to altitudes over 23,500ft in Nepal and Tibet. There is no substitute for experience when you are going to be away from civilization for extended periods. In that region of the world that starts when you leave the airplane.

If you are going to be out there for a month you will go crazy in a bivy. I am also not a fan of sharing a tent with others. Snoring, flatulance, and leaving to pee will get on your nerves and test friendships for no reason. I carry a The North Face VE25 ($425.00). At 9lbs this is my one weight concession. It is a three person 4 season dome which will stand when others fail and is nearly water proof. Bibler probably makes the best tent but they are hard to find and more expensive. If you have a month of gear you need a big tent. The weight is not that much greater for the comfort it provides. The next most important item is you sleeping bag. Marmot makes the best by far. Stick to down as they weigh less,pack smaller and last longer. A Marmot Col bag which will go to -20 ($600). I have used this bag to -40. Do not wear a bunch of clothes in the bag, this will reduce your warmth. Stick to a thin set of long underwear, I prefer Mountain Hardwear ($45 per set). Thermarest sleeping pad ($55). With all of this weight you will need a good pack. The BEST and IMOH only option for 80lbs and up is McHale http://members.aa.net/~dmchale/. This you will not find in any store except his in Seatle, WA. He does however take phone orders and requires your measurements for custom fit ($600). This is an internal frame pack. Externals are a thing of the past especially if you are going off trail. They are less stable and get snagged on trees an brush. Make no mistake you will not be under 80lbs probably closer to 100. His packs also break down to ruk sac size for daily use after you establish a camp. Throw in antibiotics, a sewing kit for flesh, water purifier (PUR Scout $80), stove (MSR XGKII $80), 5 fuel bottles ($20ea), two pair polar fleece ($120 for top and bottom), good stiff boots to carry the weight ($300) be sure you break them in extensively, a multi tool ($40), Waterproof (Gortex) top and bottom Marmot is best ($600), flashlight (try to get LED the batteries will last longer $30), Cookware(save weight with titanium $90 with fork and spoon), the list goes on but those are the majors. Food is also a concern. Better of with dehydrated prepared foods you just add water to. They are about $4.50 per meal (actually supposed to be a two person meal but I eat a lot). You will not want to go through a lot of effort when exhausted. I have these in quantity if you need them. They are also light weight. Best is Mountain House for taste and price. Everything else is available at you local outfitter (buy now winter gear is reduced) or at www.rei.com.

Bottom line: You will spend $4000 to be prepared for winter. This is not a negotiable sum unless your life is.

I am not trying to discourage you. Self reliance is a great accomplishment. I can't understand this country where most freak out when the electricity blinks. The sense of satisfaction at the end of your trip will be second to none. Be prepared though. You do not get a second chance at survival. If you prepare well you will come away with the attitude, 'what was the big deal' as I do. If you don't, well.....
 
Cris,
Define your idea of "mobile" for us. Also, what altitude do you live at? It does make a difference- if mobile means staying within a few miles of the cars and you live at 5000 feet it is a little different than if you expect to trek around constantly on the move and you live on a beach.

Erik
 
Hey guys and gals-
First of all, thanks for all the concern for our well-being. I have lived and played in the country my entire life; but with that said, I have little experience in the Colorado wilderness. To answer a few questions, I live @ app. 1000' and we plan to stay within a few miles of our transportation. I can read topos, compass, and have a GPS unit that I am very familiar with. I have much of the equipment that several have mentioned and we are planning to take a purifier, dehydrated food, etc. We have started an exercise regiment for the hunt because we both have hunted above 10,000' and know the physical demands for this type of hunting. Our major concern was the tent and pack situation. Since I am new to the concept of possibly having to pack an animal out on my back, I need advice on a pack (my assumption was an external frame for this reason), and a lightweight packable tent. In the past, we have set up camp and hunted from there. Our thoughts are to pack a few miles into the Weminuche wilderness area, west of City Reservoir. We would set up camp in a desirable area and hunt from there, only moving camp to find the elk (my definition of mobile).
Again, thanks for the concern and advice. There is no offence taken here, as this is the type of information I am seeking (that from more experienced, therefore wiser, hunters with back country packing/camping experience.
Cris
 
Cris,

You could take an internal frame pack for your gear and take some webbing to make a harness and rig a drag litter (or two) for packing the animal back to camp or the truck. The drag litter would allow you to take more of the meat in the fewest trips, possibly one if the animal is dressed out in the field.

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Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

I hunt, therefore I am.
 
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