Derek Zeanah
New member
(Apologies for spelling the author's name wrong. Should be Robert L. Kocher.)
Found the following while reading this.
It's too wordy, IMHO, but I think it does a good job of expressing both sides of the Pacifism debate that came up during Folkbabe's visit a few weeks ago. (Yes, he's biased against her stand, as most of us were.)
I've been working hard to understand some of our political opponents (those who favor disarmament and an omnipotent state), and I think this helps explain how some of them feel (like Folkbabe).
Thoughts?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Pacifists and adherents to schizoid philosophies tend to be parasitic, egocentric, and very childish. They don't want reality to disturb the comfort level of a self-centered immature world. They want a free ride. They want the benefits without the duties and responsibilities. They want to be breast fed. They want the right to live according to their desires, but they don't want to defend those rights for themselves, or everybody. They don't need to take that responsibility if other people can be made that responsibility for them.
Schizopacifistic adherents sit in childish rebellion with feelings of superiority, while arguing that if everyone shared their view, there would be no conflicts or wars. The reality of the adult world is that, whether we, or they, like it or not, there are, and always will be, other people who don't share that view and who are just as dedicated to the enslavement of others as schizoid adherents are dedicated to their view. That must be accepted as a part of growing up and accepting mature adult reality.
Schizopacifists argue that the beginning of a better non-violent world must start somewhere, and they are making that start. The reality is, that is not a start, but a finish. It produces increased violence as it confers confidence in unopposed success upon criminal elements in the world. Aside from debate about basic nature of human goodness or badness, there are people who by accident of warped background, by genetic predisposition, or by character disorder, become dedicated to imposing destruction upon those around them on individual or organized levels. Had the schizopacifistic view been prevalent to the point of a resultant non-opposition of Hitler, as was actually advanced by Gandhi, virtually every Jew in the world would have been eradicated and, from a reading of Mein Kampf, Hitler would have gone on to make the Catholics wish they had been Jews. Stalin killed 70,000,000 people to firm up communism in Russia, and if unopposed would have killed another 200,000,000 elsewhere. Mao killed millions in his first revolution, millions more in the cultural revolution, and if he had not been opposed, would have killed hundreds of millions more. Ho Chi Minh killed millions in North Viet Nam. After the fall of Viet Nam and South East Asia, Pol Pot killed 25 percent of the Cambodian population in pursuit of the ideal communist society. That is a reality schizopacifists demand not to face while they demand to remain in rebellion of not leaving their child's world. They leave other people to face the realities. However, they should bear responsibility for the deaths they ultimately cause.
Schizopacifists can play a sadistic oppositional-defiant game from the security of knowing others, in order to save themselves, will protect the schizopacifists from suffering the consequences of their own thinking.
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I stand before Almighty God and I'll say what I have said for years. I will never again soil my responsibility as a voter by voting again for a candidate who turns their back on the fundamental principle of justice by which this nation's freedom lives or dies. --Alan Keyes, 2/2/2000
[This message has been edited by dzeanah (edited June 11, 2000).]
Found the following while reading this.
It's too wordy, IMHO, but I think it does a good job of expressing both sides of the Pacifism debate that came up during Folkbabe's visit a few weeks ago. (Yes, he's biased against her stand, as most of us were.)
I've been working hard to understand some of our political opponents (those who favor disarmament and an omnipotent state), and I think this helps explain how some of them feel (like Folkbabe).
Thoughts?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Pacifists and adherents to schizoid philosophies tend to be parasitic, egocentric, and very childish. They don't want reality to disturb the comfort level of a self-centered immature world. They want a free ride. They want the benefits without the duties and responsibilities. They want to be breast fed. They want the right to live according to their desires, but they don't want to defend those rights for themselves, or everybody. They don't need to take that responsibility if other people can be made that responsibility for them.
Schizopacifistic adherents sit in childish rebellion with feelings of superiority, while arguing that if everyone shared their view, there would be no conflicts or wars. The reality of the adult world is that, whether we, or they, like it or not, there are, and always will be, other people who don't share that view and who are just as dedicated to the enslavement of others as schizoid adherents are dedicated to their view. That must be accepted as a part of growing up and accepting mature adult reality.
Schizopacifists argue that the beginning of a better non-violent world must start somewhere, and they are making that start. The reality is, that is not a start, but a finish. It produces increased violence as it confers confidence in unopposed success upon criminal elements in the world. Aside from debate about basic nature of human goodness or badness, there are people who by accident of warped background, by genetic predisposition, or by character disorder, become dedicated to imposing destruction upon those around them on individual or organized levels. Had the schizopacifistic view been prevalent to the point of a resultant non-opposition of Hitler, as was actually advanced by Gandhi, virtually every Jew in the world would have been eradicated and, from a reading of Mein Kampf, Hitler would have gone on to make the Catholics wish they had been Jews. Stalin killed 70,000,000 people to firm up communism in Russia, and if unopposed would have killed another 200,000,000 elsewhere. Mao killed millions in his first revolution, millions more in the cultural revolution, and if he had not been opposed, would have killed hundreds of millions more. Ho Chi Minh killed millions in North Viet Nam. After the fall of Viet Nam and South East Asia, Pol Pot killed 25 percent of the Cambodian population in pursuit of the ideal communist society. That is a reality schizopacifists demand not to face while they demand to remain in rebellion of not leaving their child's world. They leave other people to face the realities. However, they should bear responsibility for the deaths they ultimately cause.
Schizopacifists can play a sadistic oppositional-defiant game from the security of knowing others, in order to save themselves, will protect the schizopacifists from suffering the consequences of their own thinking.
[/quote]
------------------
I stand before Almighty God and I'll say what I have said for years. I will never again soil my responsibility as a voter by voting again for a candidate who turns their back on the fundamental principle of justice by which this nation's freedom lives or dies. --Alan Keyes, 2/2/2000
[This message has been edited by dzeanah (edited June 11, 2000).]
This would be easier if I could quote her posts, but I'll have to go from memory instead...