P38 Question

R

Rothdel

New member
So I love the P38 design. Fits my hand well I shoot them well and there is just something about the European heal mag release that I love. (Not sure I understand that one myself) I have a late model (79) P1 with the Hex bolt that makes trips to the range with me regularly.

Yesterday I was in my local gun shop and they had a P38 in their case. It is a marked P38 but post war with the Walther banner on it and its marked P38 not P.38

Unfortunately I can not remember the year as I only had a few minutes to look before I had to head back to work. The Gun comes with the Interarms box, manual, leather holster and an extra mag for $399. I am going back after work when I'm not rushed to do a better examination but prior to that:

A few questions.

1. What year did Walther switch the P38 frame to aluminium?
2. I know a lot of these guns were assembled prior to import from multiple gun parts. Whats the best way to tell if the frame is steel vs aluminium?
3. Assuming the gun looks good which on my brief inspection it did is there any reason the $399 price tag is bad?
4. Any things to look out for here? Like I said I own a late model P1 but that gun has been in the family for years so I know how it was taken care of and what kind of ammo and the quantity fired through it. Here of course I do not.

Thanks as always for the help here folks. Waiting for answers is almost as much fun as the anticipation of buying a new gun. I always learn something.
 
Steel vs aluminum?
Just use a magnet.
Eh, Wot?
Buying used stuff is always risky, but if the store will allow you to try it out, that always helps.
If not, just decide what price is comfortable even if it has flaws.
 
AFAIK, all the postwar P38's and P1's had aluminum frames. All the military WWII P.38's were all steel.

Again AFAIK, no post-war Walthers were "assembled from various gun parts". I suppose some importers of wartime guns might have assembled them, but a postwar gun in a Walther box would have been made by Walther/Manurhin from scratch, not made up from parts.

That gun, except for the markings, is the same as the one you already have, but does not have the steel crossbolt at the locking cam, so that area may wear after extensive use.

Jim
 
I bought one about 10 years ago for $275.00 with holster and extra mag. from Gander Mountain.

It was made in 1962 and is marked as a P38 with the Walther banner, but is a P1 with the alum. frame.

It's in a clip on holster on my bed frame for things that go bump in the night.

When ever I go to the range to shoot 9mm it's one that always go's with me.
It is surprisingly accurate for what it is.

I say for that price go for it.
 
g.willikers said:
Steel vs aluminum?
Just use a magnet.
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Also, aluminum alloy cannot be blued. The frame finish must be applied using some other process, and this invariably results in a color and texture that doesn't perfectly match the steel parts. I can usually spot an alloy-frame gun simply by color, assuming the gun is reasonably clean.

(Given the Walther banner, I assume that the P38 in question is commercial production and is therefore blued rather than parkerized like the military guns.)
James K said:
Again AFAIK, no post-war Walthers were "assembled from various gun parts".
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I recall that the French captured one of the production lines at the end of WWII and immediately assembled a number of police pistols using spare parts they found. However, I would still consider these to be factory guns, whereas the OP implies he/she is discussing non-matching guns cobbled together after-the-fact. Additionally, I don't think Interarms handled any of the French pistols, although I could certainly be wrong.

Many of the recently sold WWII-vintage Russian capture P38's were cobbled together using non-matching parts, as were GI bringbacks that became garage-gunsmith projects back in the 1950s-1960s when these pistols were considered relatively worthless. (The P38 was long regarded as the red-headed stepchild of the Luger P.08, and I've encountered remnants of this attitude today.) However, again, these pistols would NOT have Interarms markings and packaging.

Interarms sold new-production guns directly from Walther. An Interarms gun is presumably NOT assembled from non-matching parts.
 
FWIW, in the late 1940's, Lugers were being sold for $15, P.38's for $10. That was a lot more money then than it is now, but still cheap.

To the chagrin of today's collectors, many ex-GI's decided to "enhance" their souvenir Lugers by having them chrome plated at the local bumper shop and putting on a set of fake ivory or stag Franzite grips. P.38's, being "cheap junk" were seldom given the "treatment".

There were few gun magazines in that day, mainly the Rifleman and the hunting and outdoor magazines, but the P.38 got a really bad press. It was called "stamped out junk", not made from "all milled parts" like our much superior ".45 automatic", and it was quite evident that Germany lost the war because they issued such trash to their troops.

Jim
 
Thanks for all the great info folks.

Its funny how peoples opinions change over time. Personally I love both the 1911 and the P38 design. I prefer the P38 and how it feels in my hand but that is purely my preference. I would be hard pressed to suggest that anyone picking one gun over the other was making a bad choice and my 1911 comes to the range with me almost as often as my P1. I would feel very comfortable counting on either design to protect my families or my life.
 
I assume that the P38 in question is commercial production and is therefore blued rather than parkerized like the military guns.)
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I can't recall any German WWII small arm that was parkerized. I do not think they used the process. However I could be wrong. something in the back of my mind asks "what about the very late war guns, and phosphate finishes?" so, I need to do some research, and I haven'teven had morning coffee..yet..

I AM certain that if it has the Walther name on it, it was made for commercial sale.

Unsure when the aluminum frame was first offered, but it was available by the 1970s.
 
44 AMP said:
I can't recall any German WWII small arm that was parkerized.
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I was writing in haste and didn't fully explain myself.

I was discussing postwar guns. Every postwar German military P38/P1 I've ever seen has a finish that looks parkerized. (As with other military phosphate finishes, I'm aware it may not be true parkerization, but it certainly looks like it.)

I believe you may be correct, every unmolested* WWII P.38 I've seen has been blued. (*Unmolested = NOT Russian capture or Bubba'd. ;)) Some of the late-war guns were pretty nasty-looking, particularly those from Spreewerk, but blued badly is still blued.
 
I am far from an expert, but I have one of these post WWII commercial P38's. Mine doesn't have the hex bolt reinforcement & is a late 1950's model. So in answer to your 4 questions my best answers are:


1. Manufacture beginning date? P38/P1 manufacture was halted following the war and resumed w aluminum frames in 1957.
2. Aluminum frame? Already answered above; either by color or a magnet.
3. $399 price tag? Sounds like a good price if in good condition.
4. Any things to look out for here? I'd look at the locking block condition & the area of the frame around where the locking block operates. Looking for excessive wear or cracking.

Good luck! They are sweet shooters.
 
I would check for matching serial numbers on the slide, frame, barrel, and locking block to verify that it is not a butchered capture or "assembled" pistol.

AFAIK, all the postwar P38's and P1's had aluminum frames. All the military WWII P.38's were all steel.

Again AFAIK, no post-war Walthers were "assembled from various gun parts". I suppose some importers of wartime guns might have assembled them, but a postwar gun in a Walther box would have been made by Walther/Manurhin from scratch, not made up from parts.
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Not quite true. Serial numbers 008250 to 008448 were steel frames manufactured post-war. Only 1540 were produced before switching to aluminum. Very desirable! Please send all you find my way. :)

I recall that the French captured one of the production lines at the end of WWII and immediately assembled a number of police pistols using spare parts they found. However, I would still consider these to be factory guns, whereas the OP implies he/she is discussing non-matching guns cobbled together after-the-fact. Additionally, I don't think Interarms handled any of the French pistols, although I could certainly be wrong.
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The Mauser plant in Oberndorf was captured by the French military at the end of the war. Under orders from the French/Allied Powers, Mauser was ordered to continue production of the P38. The Mauser code was changed from SVW45 to SVW46 when the French government started manufacturing P38s from raw materials. The majority of these pistols were shipped to Southeast Asia and probably saw some use in Korea and Vietnam. They can be identified by the unique five-pointed star French proof mark.

I can't recall any German WWII small arm that was parkerized.
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All but the very last P38s produced (including the French guns aforementioned) were blued from the factory. The final few may have been parkerized.

Every postwar German military P38/P1 I've ever seen has a finish that looks parkerized
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Since you can't blue or parkerize aluminum, this would make sense. It must be some other process.
 
cc-hangfire said:
Any things to look out for here? I'd look at the locking block condition & the area of the frame around where the locking block operates. Looking for excessive wear or cracking.
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Three other items should be inspected on an older P38.
  1. Inspect the top cover for tightness or lack of play. Some have had the tabs bent or damaged by misguided removal attempts, sometimes under a mistaken belief that it's necessary to clean the parts underneath on a regular basis (it's not). Several important parts are retained by the cover, and a loose cover may spontaneously fly off on firing and take these parts with it. :eek: A loose cover is fixable by adding a retaining crosspin, but this hurts the gun's value as a collectible.
  2. Check that the decocker/safety works by verifying that the pistol is unloaded, cocking the hammer, pointing the muzzle skyward, dropping a #2 pencil into the barrel eraser-end-first, and then actuating the decocker/safety. The pencil should not jump upwards. Some pistols will fire on decocking over a live round, due to wear and/or improper repair attemps.
  3. High-round-count pistols made before the hex-pin mod have a tendency to crack slides at the corners in front of the ejection port. This is fixable with judicious welding but should be checked before purchase and the price negotiated accordingly.
 
$399 sounds fair for a post-war P38 in good condition since most are stamped P1, as you know. And the extras you mentioned add value.

However, I suspect the average P1 price will remain fairly low since many are mixmasters and reworked, and because you can get a surplus Hi Power in good mechanical condition for not much more money - or even a shooter grade P.08 under $1000. Wartime P.38s hold the price down, too.
 
The only p38 I saw while in Vietnam was worn by an ARVN officer in IV Corp (two sisters, seven sisters, some kind of sisters). Always wondered how it got there, now I have a clue. Thanks 9X18.
 
The only p38 I saw while in Vietnam was worn by an ARVN officer in IV Corp (two sisters, seven sisters, some kind of sisters). Always wondered how it got there, now I have a clue. Thanks 9X18.
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After the war, captured and newly manufactured P38s were shipped from Europe to British and French colonies around the globe.

Today, I'm sure you will find plenty of P38s and P1s in use in parts of Africa and Asia.

Just recently the Kurdish Peshmerga received a shipment of 8000 P1s from Germany to help curb the active situation in the Middle East.
 
It seems to me that Walther did a very limited run of steel framed P.38s either in the 70s or very early 80s.
 
That gun, except for the markings, is the same as the one you already have, but does not have the steel crossbolt at the locking cam,
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There is a little more to this story.

When I compared my P38 to my P1, both dated in the 1960's, I saw that the P1 had more metal on the slide. The sides of the slide went up higher and hence covered the sides of the barrel just a bit more than on the P38.

I can't say that no P38s had the taller slide feature, or that all P1s did have it. I am just saying those two compared in that fashion.

And IIRC there were some P1s that didn't have the hex insert in the frame. This is book learning and I haven't seen one of those.

Bart Noir
 
And IIRC there were some P1s that didn't have the hex insert in the frame.
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The design was mostly untouched when the move to alloy frames occurred.

Later on it was discovered that the alloy (which was not as strong as others on the market) was prone to cracking. Those P1s received the hex insert.

The P38s had steel frames and had no problems with frame cracking.
 
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