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+P vs.+P+
- Thread starter Frosty
- Start date
Quantum Singularity
New member
+P+ is more powerful than +P
If I understand it right (don't quote me on this) +P+ is usually loaded past SAAMI specs. It is more powerful than +P which is merely loaded to the upper limit of SAAMI specs. I believe only the .38 spl and 9mm have both +P and +P+. I have seen many .45 ACP +P, but never a .45 +P+ (however, I could be wrong again).
If I understand it right (don't quote me on this) +P+ is usually loaded past SAAMI specs. It is more powerful than +P which is merely loaded to the upper limit of SAAMI specs. I believe only the .38 spl and 9mm have both +P and +P+. I have seen many .45 ACP +P, but never a .45 +P+ (however, I could be wrong again).
Plus P is usually equivalent to a hot "book" handload, whereas +P+ is off the scale. SAAMI does not even admit there is such a thing as it is made and sold for law enforcement only. In the +P+ .38 Special, users are told to use it only in revolvers made for the .357 Magnum. +P+ 9mm is to be used only in full size guns, not snubbies.
The .38 Special +P+ is a purely politically correct loading. It is about equivalent to .357 Magnum, but police departments issue it so that they don't have the pro-crook folks after them for using those "horrible killer Magnum bullets". The police PR guy can say that their officer friendly types use the same old .38 Special that they have used for years, etc., etc.
Jim
The .38 Special +P+ is a purely politically correct loading. It is about equivalent to .357 Magnum, but police departments issue it so that they don't have the pro-crook folks after them for using those "horrible killer Magnum bullets". The police PR guy can say that their officer friendly types use the same old .38 Special that they have used for years, etc., etc.
Jim
+P+
When my department went from 9mm S&W's to Beretta .40sw we had about 300 boxes of +P+ 146gr. Winchester ammo. The admin. staff did not know what to do with it so the LT. and myself split it up. So I was GIVEN 150boxes of the stuff!
It is loaded well beyond SAMMI specs. I would compare it to submachine ammo. Out of my Beretta it was pushing approx. 510 power factor and the FPS had to be around 1400-1500. Nasty stuff. Dirty burning and hard on the gun. Some of the SW we traded in had severe frame rail, barrel lug barrel hood wear. So I would not and will not use it very often.
Anybody want some? I'd sell some.
jason
j79stalter@hotmail.com
When my department went from 9mm S&W's to Beretta .40sw we had about 300 boxes of +P+ 146gr. Winchester ammo. The admin. staff did not know what to do with it so the LT. and myself split it up. So I was GIVEN 150boxes of the stuff!
It is loaded well beyond SAMMI specs. I would compare it to submachine ammo. Out of my Beretta it was pushing approx. 510 power factor and the FPS had to be around 1400-1500. Nasty stuff. Dirty burning and hard on the gun. Some of the SW we traded in had severe frame rail, barrel lug barrel hood wear. So I would not and will not use it very often.
Anybody want some? I'd sell some.
jason
j79stalter@hotmail.com
Midway USA's loadMAP says Maximum Average Pressure (loadMAP -get it?) for standard 9mm P is 35,000 PSI. I've read "Plus-P" is supposed to be 38,500 psi. The "Plus-P-Plus" ammo I've seen has a label claiming it's loaded to 40,000 CUP, which while it's not the same as 40,000 PSI, is mighty hot. NATO spec 9mm is also said to be hot, but I believe pressures are measured using CIP (European) standards, which produce different numbers than SAAMI.
The 38,500 psi figure above came from an Internet chat room, so judge for yourself its reliability.
The 38,500 psi figure above came from an Internet chat room, so judge for yourself its reliability.
What's interesting is that 9MM Corbon 115 grain is rated as +P and I do understand it is within the 38.500 PSI limit. Some of the LEO rounds from Federal, Remington and Winchester in this same bullet weight are rated +P+, but actually have less muzzle velocity in the same length barrel. Maybe LE specs call for a faster burning powder than Corbon uses.
Recently the local gunshop took in trade a case of Remington 9mm +P+ ammo, of course marked law enforcement only. Now that he's got it, the shop owner doesn't seem quite sure what to do with it. He doesn't want to shoot it himself, and so far none of his customers do, either. I think he had the idea that it would be okay in 9mm carbines, like the Marlin. I wonder how much easier it would be on a carbine than on a handgun, if it exceeds the manufacturer's recommendations for either.