You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
+p +p+ ??
- Thread starter bdog
- Start date
+P is safe in just about any semi-recently manufactured firearm. +P+ is safe only in guns in great shape and designed to be able to handle those highest of pressures. Quite often, +P+ is for LEO only. So stick with +P for just to be safe. Try not to shoot either consistently if you can help it.
Ben
------------------
Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target" http://ben.gunsnet.net
Different, just like everyone else. (Ben Original)
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited September 29, 2000).]
Ben
------------------
Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target" http://ben.gunsnet.net
Different, just like everyone else. (Ben Original)
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited September 29, 2000).]
Eric of IN
New member
To add to what Ben said, +P means that the cartridge develops pressures over what SAAMI calls standard, +P+ means they go way over.
Eric
Eric
Shawn Dodson
Moderator
From the SAAMI web site (http://www.saami.com/unsafe3.htm):
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>+P ammunition is loaded to a higher pressure, as indicated by the +P marking on the cartridge case headstamp. This ammunition is for use only in firearms specially designed for it and so recommended by the manufacturer of the firearm.[/quote]
------------------
/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>+P ammunition is loaded to a higher pressure, as indicated by the +P marking on the cartridge case headstamp. This ammunition is for use only in firearms specially designed for it and so recommended by the manufacturer of the firearm.[/quote]
------------------
/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com
+P is an indication of pressure, not performance.
Example, one hot 125gr .357 load (1,800fps) from Winchester data is about 10,000 psi lighter than another 125 gr .357 load (1,460fps) from the same data sheet. The difference in pressure comes from the powder used. The lower performance load uses a faster burning powder, hence the higher peak pressure.
Sam...follow me, I know a shortcut.
Example, one hot 125gr .357 load (1,800fps) from Winchester data is about 10,000 psi lighter than another 125 gr .357 load (1,460fps) from the same data sheet. The difference in pressure comes from the powder used. The lower performance load uses a faster burning powder, hence the higher peak pressure.
Sam...follow me, I know a shortcut.
bdog: Check with your gun manufacturer before you start using +p ammo. Some guns are not strong enough to take +p ammo. For example, early S&W model 642s were not rated for .38 +p. Current models are.
The only calibers where I particularly want +p or +p+ are 9mm and .38. In larger calibers the standard loadings seem to be acceptable.
M1911
The only calibers where I particularly want +p or +p+ are 9mm and .38. In larger calibers the standard loadings seem to be acceptable.
M1911
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="arial,helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bdog:
Thanks for all the info. I am shooting 9mm in a glock 19. I assume the +p and +p+ are safe in it ?[/quote]
I always carry +P ammo in my G19 and G17 (when I carry for defense).
I've put a few boxes of +P+ Hirtenberger through my G17.
Safe? Yeah, but it is harder on the gun... It's also a bit more expensive. For self defense (and the practice to ensure feed reliability), the extra expense is worth it. But for normal practice, I stick with normal loads.
Thanks for all the info. I am shooting 9mm in a glock 19. I assume the +p and +p+ are safe in it ?[/quote]
I always carry +P ammo in my G19 and G17 (when I carry for defense).
I've put a few boxes of +P+ Hirtenberger through my G17.
Safe? Yeah, but it is harder on the gun... It's also a bit more expensive. For self defense (and the practice to ensure feed reliability), the extra expense is worth it. But for normal practice, I stick with normal loads.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.R.Sam:
+P is an indication of pressure, not performance. [/quote]
Right. Just two examples from my experience. One, the standard pressure .38 Special 125 grain Federal Nyclad HP load gave me higher velocities from a 2" barrel than some +P 125 grain loadings.
Two, a lot of 9x19mm Winchester Ranger +P+ ("Law Enforcement Only") 115 grain ammo chronographed slower than Winchester's 115 grain Silvertip from one gun, and slower than Federal's 115 grain HiShok (9BP) and CCI's 115 grain Gold Dot ammo in another gun.
+P is an indication of pressure, not performance. [/quote]
Right. Just two examples from my experience. One, the standard pressure .38 Special 125 grain Federal Nyclad HP load gave me higher velocities from a 2" barrel than some +P 125 grain loadings.
Two, a lot of 9x19mm Winchester Ranger +P+ ("Law Enforcement Only") 115 grain ammo chronographed slower than Winchester's 115 grain Silvertip from one gun, and slower than Federal's 115 grain HiShok (9BP) and CCI's 115 grain Gold Dot ammo in another gun.
BrokenArrow
New member
SAAMI limits the 9mm to 35K, +P to 38.5K. There is no official SAAMI designation for anything over that or +P+. The European CIP stds I can't recall, but some NATO ammo gets as high as 42K, maybe more.
US mil psec proof loads are 50K.
US 9mm Cartridge, Ball, M882 has a max pressure of 36,250 psi IIRC, about SAAMI +P. The US 9mm Cartridge, Ball (smg ammo) has a max pressure of 43K and is not intended for the M9 or any other pistol. Win/Fed NATO does about 1190 from my BHP. I have fired foreign ammo made to NATO specs that was much slower too. The NATO headstamp (cross in a circle) is more a quality control quarantee on components and manufacturing processes than a specific velocity/pressure level.
Some strange stuff for ya:
Rem 115 std 1200
Rem 115 +P 1260
Rem 115 +P+ 1270
Fed 115 1190
Fed 115 +P+ 1265
Fed 124 HS 1120
Fed 124 HS +P+ 1210
Speer 124 GD 1155
Speer 124 +P GD 1260
Triton 115 +P 1303
CorBon 115 +P 1316
All from a BHP
Pressure depends on components used. A higher pressure load might not always be faster than a lower pressure load using different stuff.
There can be a wide variation from lot to lot and gun to gun too.
The 124 +P Rem GS did 1145 from my G26, 1140 from a another guy's Beretta 92, 1190 frm mine! My Beretta 92 shot the CB 115 +P at 1330, a friends G17 at 1300.
They cause accelerated wear; something to think about with some guns (Beretta, SIG, BHP) more than others (Glock, Ruger, CZ)usually give you more pen, exp, stretch than normal loads. If that really makes a difference will be argued here until the cows come home.
[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited October 02, 2000).]
US mil psec proof loads are 50K.
US 9mm Cartridge, Ball, M882 has a max pressure of 36,250 psi IIRC, about SAAMI +P. The US 9mm Cartridge, Ball (smg ammo) has a max pressure of 43K and is not intended for the M9 or any other pistol. Win/Fed NATO does about 1190 from my BHP. I have fired foreign ammo made to NATO specs that was much slower too. The NATO headstamp (cross in a circle) is more a quality control quarantee on components and manufacturing processes than a specific velocity/pressure level.
Some strange stuff for ya:
Rem 115 std 1200
Rem 115 +P 1260
Rem 115 +P+ 1270
Fed 115 1190
Fed 115 +P+ 1265
Fed 124 HS 1120
Fed 124 HS +P+ 1210
Speer 124 GD 1155
Speer 124 +P GD 1260
Triton 115 +P 1303
CorBon 115 +P 1316
All from a BHP
Pressure depends on components used. A higher pressure load might not always be faster than a lower pressure load using different stuff.
There can be a wide variation from lot to lot and gun to gun too.
The 124 +P Rem GS did 1145 from my G26, 1140 from a another guy's Beretta 92, 1190 frm mine! My Beretta 92 shot the CB 115 +P at 1330, a friends G17 at 1300.
They cause accelerated wear; something to think about with some guns (Beretta, SIG, BHP) more than others (Glock, Ruger, CZ)usually give you more pen, exp, stretch than normal loads. If that really makes a difference will be argued here until the cows come home.
[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited October 02, 2000).]