+p or P+P in a colt Mk4 mod 70?
- Thread starter badbot
- Start date
I agree the barrel is not going to blow. There are other issues such as frame peening and failures to feed and failures to eject. Overpressure ammunition will be hard on the gun and function may not be as reliable with standard pressure ammunition.
Basically, what to you think you are going to get with +P or +P+ ammunition? Do you feel safer because you think the extra oomph is going to give you better lethality?, does more always mean more?
Dfariswheel
New member
The standard 16 pound recoil spring is good for standard load 230 grain ammo at 800 feet per second.
Going to a 17 to 18 pound spring "may" improve operation and lessen battering, but it's hard to argue with John Browning and Colt who designed the gun to use a 16 pound spring.
If you use hotter ammo you need to up the strength of the recoil spring.
For hotter ammo over 800 fps you may need a spring of 20 to 22 pounds.
Remember, the stronger springs also cause the slide to slam shut harder, and that too causes battering of parts.
The law of diminishing returns holds here, and while you can use +P ammo with a stronger spring, using +P+ ammo is rarely justified and definitely will cause the gun to wear much faster.
If you're facing a human, +P+ isn't really going to make a real difference, but will wear out your pistol.
If you intend to face a grizzle or polar bear, then you'd be better with a more powerful type of gun, possibly a 10mm.
Going to a 17 to 18 pound spring "may" improve operation and lessen battering, but it's hard to argue with John Browning and Colt who designed the gun to use a 16 pound spring.
If you use hotter ammo you need to up the strength of the recoil spring.
For hotter ammo over 800 fps you may need a spring of 20 to 22 pounds.
Remember, the stronger springs also cause the slide to slam shut harder, and that too causes battering of parts.
The law of diminishing returns holds here, and while you can use +P ammo with a stronger spring, using +P+ ammo is rarely justified and definitely will cause the gun to wear much faster.
If you're facing a human, +P+ isn't really going to make a real difference, but will wear out your pistol.
If you intend to face a grizzle or polar bear, then you'd be better with a more powerful type of gun, possibly a 10mm.
Bill DeShivs
New member
+P+ kills them deader!
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Actually, they designed the M1911 for a 14-pound recoil spring. (With a small radius firing pin stop.)Dfariswheel said:
I just wanted the information, not trying to kick over the beehive.
I have a buffer installed and the poly washer under the recoil spring for the slide to bash instead of the frame. I can't remember if I went up on the spring tension back then.
I would never argue with Mr. Browning about gun design.
I assume that my old bowling pin loads exceeded any +P currently made.
I did what I could to mitigate any extra wear and tear.
I have a buffer installed and the poly washer under the recoil spring for the slide to bash instead of the frame. I can't remember if I went up on the spring tension back then.
I would never argue with Mr. Browning about gun design.
I assume that my old bowling pin loads exceeded any +P currently made.
I did what I could to mitigate any extra wear and tear.
The occasional range session with +p is fine Imo. Keep a 16lb recoil spring, ditch the shock buffer, and get a square base firing pin stop. Going up in mainspring weight will help a lot... At the expense of trigger pull weight. Which is why I quickly discarded the idea of hotrodding 45 in a 1911.
Have to love the gimmick of +P having people jump all over it. It will kill them even deader than regular ammo plus your follow up shots will be nowhere to be foundJohnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
+p or no +p
I messed around with all sorts of .45 ACP loads for decades. After spending a lot of time and money with various bullet shapes and weights, both factory and handloads, I finally decided to become realistic.
Standard stuff is usually best---certainly simpler. I measure factory ammo against 230 gr. hardball at standard velocities. Unless doing the most precise possible methods, it is difficult to tell which target was shot with Federal,R-P,or Winchester ammo.
Many years ago, I adjusted my practice handloads, 230 RN cast, 230 RN plated, and 230 RN jacketed, so that they all hit pretty much the same point of impact as the factory ammo. Happily, I found that Speer Gold Dot 230 HP standard velocity impacted right in there with that same ammo.
I sometimes have to look for the GDHP which is NOT the Plus-P load. No problem. I'm retired and kind of enjoy shopping at ammo suppliers. The
GDHP (and factory FMJ) standard velocity loads are adequately powerful without the max velocity "advantage." They are easier to shoot well and don't batter my pistols as much.
A five-inch Government Model or even a 4.25-inch barrel Lightweight Commander are sufficient with standard velocity ammo. Yeah, when I pack a snubby .38 Spl or a compact 9mm, the +p ammo is something of a comfort, but I don't feel the need with a .45 ACP.
For whatever its worth, my handloads are for practice or hunting. I carry factory ammo when I go out in public.
Best regards
JPG
I messed around with all sorts of .45 ACP loads for decades. After spending a lot of time and money with various bullet shapes and weights, both factory and handloads, I finally decided to become realistic.
Standard stuff is usually best---certainly simpler. I measure factory ammo against 230 gr. hardball at standard velocities. Unless doing the most precise possible methods, it is difficult to tell which target was shot with Federal,R-P,or Winchester ammo.
Many years ago, I adjusted my practice handloads, 230 RN cast, 230 RN plated, and 230 RN jacketed, so that they all hit pretty much the same point of impact as the factory ammo. Happily, I found that Speer Gold Dot 230 HP standard velocity impacted right in there with that same ammo.
I sometimes have to look for the GDHP which is NOT the Plus-P load. No problem. I'm retired and kind of enjoy shopping at ammo suppliers. The
GDHP (and factory FMJ) standard velocity loads are adequately powerful without the max velocity "advantage." They are easier to shoot well and don't batter my pistols as much.
A five-inch Government Model or even a 4.25-inch barrel Lightweight Commander are sufficient with standard velocity ammo. Yeah, when I pack a snubby .38 Spl or a compact 9mm, the +p ammo is something of a comfort, but I don't feel the need with a .45 ACP.
For whatever its worth, my handloads are for practice or hunting. I carry factory ammo when I go out in public.
Best regards
JPG
Model12Win
Moderator
Should be safe for reasonable P+P loads, provided you install a stiffer spring. Should be fine with P+ stock.