+p ammo useless in snubnose?

D

dcook22

New member
Hi all,

I was speaking with one of the employees at my local gun shop. I told him I was interested in a S&W 642. He had a different model in stock in .38 spl, but the barrel did not say +p on it. I said I wanted the 642 because it was rated for +p ammo and I wanted the extra stopping power. He said that +p was useless in a barrel of less than 4 inches. I was wondering if he was right.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Dan
 
I have a smith j frame,

stainless steel, the model with the concealed or shrouded hammer, not the bodyguard model, rated for +P...would rather have I think the alloy light weight version that's not rated for +P, unless firing +P would make the revolver disenergrate (of course it won't) I'd keep it loaded with +P ammo for defense, don't think that firing five rounds if one's life depended on it would ruin the gun, and even if it did...
I think that warning of not firing +P out of a non +P rated gun is more on the mind set of not going to the range and firing a lot of +P, I could be wrong but that's what I'm thinking. I would find it hard to believe that shooting five rounds of anything would ruin a revolver, I could of course be wrong, sure others more in the know then I will respond to your question.

Haven't heard that +P in a snubby is of no benefit before, I would think any extra power even if marginal would be a plus in a .38
 
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+P ammo

I have a model 642 and have shot +P rounds several times. I am not an expert but I cannot see what difference barrel length would make. Did this shop not have a 642 in stock and perhaps wanted to sell you something else?

This sounds like undiluted BS to me.
 
Dan, good question, my .38 is +P and that is what I shoot through it. The ballistics gurus will have to answer that one. I will say that I went to a big Cabela's the other day with my dad to buy him some good .38 self defense ammo for his .38 which is not +P. Their selection was simply nonexistent in the non +P area.

That might be something for your consideration. Maybe you will never shoot +P loads but I might suggest getting a gun with that rating in the off chance you run into a limited ammo selection.
 
This is one of those times where he lied by telling the truth...sorta :).

OK. Take every 38+P hollowpoint out there and test 'em from a snubby. Most will fail to expand, esp. if you do a denim-layer-first gel test.

But then there's half a dozen or so that damned well WILL expand from a snub, reliably. Even a couple of standard pressure that will too. So you have to be damned picky about your ammo but if you are, if you "care enough to send the very best", you can indeed get more out of a +P rated gun.

See also posts at:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330093
 
hey Jim, what's a good .38 +P snubby load?

I keep Federal .38 158 grain SWC +P in mine, was told that used to be what the FBI used when they packed J frame size .38's...but I'm open to a better option.
And you're right about a snubby not having the proper velocity to expand, why I can't understand that gun salesman telling him that +P is of no benefit. 45 acp out of a five inch government model is hard pressed to come up with the velocity needed to expand in a hollow point too, is this not correct? Albeit why would a big bore .45 even need to. (I have a Colt government .45 BTW).
 
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Speer +p 135gr Gold Dot SB (for Short Barrel) will expand when fired from a snubby. So will Remington version of the FBI load: +p 158gr LSWCHP (lead semi wadcutter hollow point), though probably not through four layers of denim. The Winchester and Federal versions of the FBI load probably will not expand from a snubby because they use hardcast bullets. The Remington version uses dead soft lead. That is what is in my 637 Airweight, the visible hammer twin of the 642.

And I'm betting that salesman did not have a 642 in stock, and was trying to switch you.

Cordially, Jack
 
The +p is usefull in snubs. As long as they are rated for it. Extra 50 fps or more. May help expand, may not. But at least it has the extra fps!
 
+P is not useless in a snub, but it may not help all that much either. You can shoot a limited number of +p rounds in guns that are not rated for +p, it just causes them to wear faster. That is true, BTW, even in +p rated guns.
 
No, +P is not useless in a snubnose; most of the time you need the +P to get bullets fired out of a snubbie up to velocities where the bullet will expand. I tend to smile an nod alot when talking to someone who works at a gun store. Most are nice enough, and if they knew half of what they thought they did they would be dangerous. You do have to be very picky when selecting snubbie ammo. There are three loads off the top of my head that work very well in a snubbie; Corbon 110gr. DPX, Speer 135gr. Gold Dot short barrel and Remington 158gr. +P SWCHP. All are +P and all expand very well and penetrate to desired depths. Another "okay" .38 special snubbie load is the Winchester 130gr. SXT +P, but the former three loads are superior to the SXT load.
 
For one thing, the majority of good self-defense loadings in .38 Special are +P. Most of the non +P loadings use older designs like Winchester's 110grn Silvertip. Most of these loadings either don't reliably expand or don't penetrate deeply enough for most people's tastes. this is because in order to get high enough velocity to reliably out of a snub and still stay within standard pressure limits, light aggressively expanding bullets have to be used. An exception to this is Buffalo Bore's standard pressure loadings, but they're both pricey and not widely available. Going +P widens up your options considerably.
 
Wow, thanks for all the replies, folks. A very interesting read. Lots to consider, such sa can I find +p ammo in the first place? I'm going to peruse the snubbies and 4" barrel wheel-guns at the show this weekend here in Ft. lauderdale. I like the SP101, so maybe that's agood option too.

Thanks again.

Dan
 
The SP101 is a little more gun then a J frame .38

Slightly harder to conceal, in the 2 1/4" barrel, could opt for the .357 version if you can shoot magnum loads in a short barrel gun, they come in a 3" barrel version as well. I think those Ruger SP's can digest a steady load of anything, remembering when they first came out some gun magazine did a 5000 round (non stop except to switch shooters and dunk it in water to cool it off) magnum torture test on it and it didn't miss a beat-a well engineered and well built gun. It's a given that a .357 magnum round will expand out of one, I'm sure. Too much of a caliber for me personally/too much muzzle jump etc, .38+P is about my limit, in a revolver-.38's out of an SP ought to be a joy to shoot however.
 
Not to lead the horse away from one trough to another...but... :)

Maybe you should consider one of the autos in 357SIG/.40 or .45 that are similar in size to the 2" J frames, but offer better power and shootability.

My SIG P239 or P245 arent all that much bigger than my 2" S&W's, will shoot groups at 15 yards I struggle to shoot at 7 with my snubbies (especially after a box of +P in practice), and especially the .357, have barrel lengths nearly double that of the revolvers with no barrel gap, so there is none of the velocity loss, and the gun and reloads area lot easier to carry.

Even the .380's offer basically the same power as the .38's out of a 2" gun, and again, all the advantages of the autos.

The autos are generally much easier to shoot well with, and can be shot all day in practice with with hot loads and little fatigue. My 642 is not my favorite gun after a box of +P level reloads, which is usually about all I can take these days, and forget the all steel 60 using magnum level loads.
 
One concern may be that the added powder in the +P is not burning fully before the bullet leaves the shorter barrel of the snubby. The result is less performance than you should expect. This though I believe was solved long ago with faster burning powders. The longer barrel will still be better and get added velocity but the powder burns fast enough that there is a noticible difference in fps between +P and standard in snub nosed revolvers.
 
In my own personal test, I have found that Winchester Silvertips perform as well if not better than most +p options. Of the +p ammo, I prefer the Speer Gold Dot others have mentioned.

A shorter barrel does allow for less velocity simply because there is less time where the powder is actually burning behind the bullet, but the loss is very small usually...especially with the fast burning powders of today. :)

PS: I would not run +p through a non-rates aluminum or alloy frame gun but any of Smith's stainless guns will handle +p easily even if they do not say so on the barrel.
 
I don't know much about +p ammo in a .38 but if you want a great .38 round for self defence i'de recommend 110grain federal hydra-shock in .38.This all i use in my snubbie .357 for my wife.Very low recoil and very effective in snubnuse revolvers.
 
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Yeah, the guy at the store is completely misinformed or he was trying to BS you into buying a gun that wanted to move. Either way it's not good.

The 642 is a great gun. It that's the one that you want then don't be dissuaded by someone behind the counter in a gunshop. Most of the time primary objective is to move their inventory. Not be sure that you get what best fits YOUR needs. It's like asking a barber if you need a haircut.
 
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