overall cartridge length, 2.260 max?

K

ka9fax

New member
Hello,
I have a question, I'm reloading 223. Hornady brass 1750, Rem. 7 1/2 BR primers, 26.7g Win. 748, Vmax50g. Redding Competition Seating Die, RCBS Summit press. Rifle is a AR Colt 6724 Hbar Elite, using Pmag's
I keep reading that the max do to the mag is 2.260. With my seat die I start high and work down. I stopped seating 3 bullets at 2.283 put them in the mag and cycled. All went perfect. So, is it safe to fire, and do I keep going longer till bullet is to long for mag, To my old eyes that will be soon. am I overlooking something? I just want me and my rifle to be safe, I have 3 years to retirement and my plans are to make it...lol
Tony
 
I'm still kind of new around here, but I believe loading long on the OAL is better than short. As long as the bullets are not jammed into the lands and they fit in the mag and cycle well. Going short on the OAL may increase pressure as case volume is decreased. If the bullet is jammed into the lands you will also experience a pressure spike. One other thing to consider is neck tension, is their enough bullet in the neck to support the bullet. Sounds to me like you should be fine, but like I said I'm still kinda new. some one with more experience should chime in soon.

Edit-
the max do to the mag is 2.260. With my seat die I start high and work down. I stopped seating 3 bullets at 2.283
Click to expand...
so you are .023 longer than your mag?
 
26.7g of Win. 748 is a tick over max. Only by .7 of a grain though. Your OAL of 2.283" is 70 thou too long for a 50, according to Hodgdon. However, they also give 2.260" as the OAL for a 62 and a 62 is longer than a 50.
The rifle's chamber will decide the max OAL faster than any manual.
Falls under Rule Number One. It works, don't fix it.
You won't blow anything up.
"...3 years to retirement..." Forced on my by having my heart rebuilt 3 years ago. It's not all it's cracked up to be. Boring.
 
308Loader,
I'm .023 longer than what people state I can fit in a mag, have not ran out of room yet, still fits, chambers and cycles fine. I'm thinking I will run out of room in the mag before coming close to the lands. That's one tool I do not have yet but felt I should be safe as long as I don't max out in the mag.
I'm thinking I'm getting away with this longer length because of the 50g bullet. I bet my length would never work with a 62 or 69g bullet.
Thanks 308Loader
Tony
 
Hello T.O'Heir
I seen that in the Hodgdon man. The new Hornady book shows a start load of 24.5 and a max of 28.3. I don't know why there is such a big difference. I went with the Hornady book and made 5 rounds of each starting at 24.5 working to 28.3 checking for pressure signs as I worked up. 28.3 showed no signs of pressure. Thanks for letting me know that I should be safe, I was just telling 308Loader that I'm sure I'm close to the land yet since my rounds still fit in the mag.
As far as retirement, my buddy tells me to quit wishing my life away...lol he is going on about 10 years now of retirement. I work in a steel mill in Indiana. Its always either to hot, to cold and to dirty. And almost as dangerous as making ammo...lol. Just joking!!
Tony
 
Use an empty, resized piece of brass, no primer or powder. Seat a bullet but leave the bullet WAY out. Chamber it, and the bullet will be forced back into the case by the rifling. Tap the '"round" out from the muzzle end and measure it. Subtract another .010 and see where you're at. That's how I (as a poor man) check my chamber length. That length may fit in your mag, or it may not. You may have enough of the bullet in the case (SHOULD have at least the diameter of the bullet, in this case .224", of the bullet in the case neck) or you may not, but ether way, it will tell you how far out you can seat without being in the lands.

From there you can decide if your mag is your limiting factor, or if your chamber is.
 
Wow great info, thanks a lot!!! I will try this right when I get home from work. So, I will just barely seat. then I will have to put in by hand. So do I then hit the release on the side and let the rifle slam into full battery? Then use something like my Dewy plastic coated rod from the other side to knock out, it might be a little tight.
Tony
 
Correct. Then measure and subtract .010 to .015 (as MOST rifles like to be 10 to 15 thousandths from the lands, AND it's a SAFE distance from the lands), and then you can figure out how far out you can go for YOUR chamber. Again, maybe YOUR chamber's max length will fit in your mag,, and maybe it won't, but then you will know if your max mag length will be away from the lands far enough.

Bye the way, your chamber's max oal will change with different bullet profiles, so if you change bullets, you will need to do this again for THAT bullet type/profile............
 
Thanks again. I just got home so I'm going to try to do this as soon as i get cleaned up. Hopefully I will not get disturbed. I will give you feedback tomorrow.
Tony
 
849ACSO

Just a question
How do you TAP a case out with a bullet in it that is not crimped and not move the bullet ?
 
OK, I had good luck this morning. Did this 3 times and was getting 2.362 to 2.364. I have a redding national match set and i think the resize die gets the neck really tight so i had problems at 1st. but all i had to do was find a case that had a nice snug fit. I also did not have to tap bullet from other side. As i gently pulled the charge handle back the cartage fell right out:)
So it looks like I'm fine with the 2.283 that is fitting in my mag.
Thanks again
Tony
 
What happens if you change magazines? That is just a "thought" question.
If you load up a few of these "longer" rounds and you find yourself having to use a different magazine you might find an issue.

SAAMI says 2.260"

I read on another forum where a user measured the inside of his STANAG mags and the inside was 2.260".

So, it might be you are making loads that are specific to certain magazines.
 
849ACSO

Just a question
How do you TAP a case out with a bullet in it that is not crimped and not move the bullet ?
Click to expand...

The neck tension should hold the bullet in it's spot in the case. That's why you TAP, not POUND. The case will be loose enough in the chamber that it will easily slide out with the bullet when it comes loose from the rifling.

And................ I don't crimp rifle rounds to start with. If you NEED to crimp, then your neck tension isn't tight enough. Some choose to crimp, but if you find it a NEED, you should to check your sizing die, as it's not reducing neck size enough.
 
What happens if you change magazines? That is just a "thought" question.
Click to expand...
Yes you are right. Any change in a mag. our even bullet can get you in trouble. I spent 1 full season finding the bullet my firearm liked before doing this. I also use only Pmag magazines for this rifle and have more than what i need. I also will never have more ammo than I need in case anything should ever change, I don't reload rifle with my Dillon I hand load so i never can keep up;) I use this as a BR rifle so i try to stay consistent.
 
It seems odd that your mag/mags are allowing this extra length. I loaded some rounds .010 long once and they started hanging up in my p-mags . Not all but it only takes one . It also was never the first cartridge in the mag that hung up . It was several rounds below that . When a cartridge deeper in the mag stops the spring from pushing the rest of the bullets to the top of the mag there is no cartridge at the top for the BCG to strip off .

I strongly recommend you load to 2.260 if you ever plan to shoot those in any other rifle/mag in the future . Meaning loading ammo for a rainy day . I have all kinds of custom COAL measurements but when I load rounds to put away for the future . I size my cases to GO-gage length and seat to recommended depth . Who knows what rifles I'll have in the future . Because of that I will want all rounds I've loaded and saved to fire in any rifle I chamber them in .

If you are loading for a single rifle and plan to shoot each and every cartridge through that rifle . By all means load them to the best that rifle will except .

The other thing to consider , are you seating those bullets to long to the point not enough bullet is being held by the neck . The basic rule is load at least the depth of the bullets diameter . So a .224 bullet will be seated at least .224 into the neck . Now a 223 case trimmed to 1.750 only has about .190 of neck length so your bullet should be seated at least that deep . I've never loaded the bullet you are talking about but my guess is you are close to as far out is you will ever want to go with that bullet . For example I just seated a 55gr bullet to 2.283 and that left .140 of the bullet seated in the case/neck .
 
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Metal God, looks like you hit the nail right on the head. I only put a few in at that size, as I go deeper I see this will not work if I want to still use a mag, and I do. Never thought about what you said and only running my test with only a few. So, I went back to the 20 some that I made and put them back to 2.260,2.261. Lesson learned.
Thank you for the rule on the bullet neck depth, I did not know that, so that's something that I will remember.
Happy Holliday's
Tony
 
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