Our right to be left alone

steelheart

Moderator
From the St. Petersburg Times come a column addressing what one former Supreme Court justice - Louis Brandeis - called one of our most fundamental rights as American citizens: The right to be left alone.

Unfortunately, "The Government" doesn't seem to recognize this right nowadays.



Our right to be left alone
By ROBYN E. BLUMNER, Times Perspective Columnist


Unless you are willing to live like Unabomber Ted Kaczynski, it is nearly impossible these days to go about your business anonymously. Every time you pull out your credit card, peruse the Internet or roll through a toll booth with an E-Z pass you leave a trail that can be traced. Take money out of an ATM, buy a newspaper at a Seven-11 or walk down a certain city street and a security camera will be watching and recording. And if you want to get on an airplane, well, just don't carry anything you would be embarrassed to have dumped out on a counter.

So what does it matter if a law says police can demand identification when stopping someone during the investigation of a crime?

A case out of Nevada, asking this very question, will be heard by the U.S. Supreme Court this term.

In Hiibel vs. Dist. Ct., the court will decide for the first time whether we have a right to anonymity as we go about our lives, or whether the government can demand to know who we are whenever we are out in public.

Not to overstate this, but nothing less than the very fabric of American liberty is at stake.

Here are the facts: Larry Hiibel was approached in 2000 by a deputy sheriff of Humboldt County after a bystander reported seeing a man strike a female passenger inside a parked truck. According to the deputy, Hiibel appeared intoxicated and refused to identify himself when asked. Hiibel was arrested, and after the battery charge against him was dropped, he was found guilty of delaying a public officer by refusing to cooperate and fined $250.

Hiibel challenged his conviction on the grounds that he had a right to remain silent in the face of police questions. His public defender wrote in a filing, "It is inimical to a free society that mere silence can lead to imprisonment."
In December 2002, the Nevada Supreme Court sided with police in a 4-3 decision. The majority opinion made it seem a relative trifle to be forced to disclose one's name when police demand it. "Reasonable people do not expect their identities - their names - to be withheld from officers," wrote Chief Justice Cliff Young. "Rather, we reveal our names in a variety of situations every day without much consideration."

Young balanced this "minor imposition" against the public interest served by the disclosure. He described the 9/11 attacks, the anthrax mailings and high school students who "randomly gun down their fellow classmates and teachers," then breathlessly wrote: "We are at war against enemies who operate with concealed identities and the dangers we face as a nation are unparalleled." For these reasons, he said, it is reasonable to require that we disclose our identities to police when they are suspicious of us.

Come on. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were well known at Columbine High School but that didn't stop a thing. Does Young think they would have put down the guns in order to comply with a police order for ID?

The ruling used sophistry to justify a handoff of extraordinary new power to police over the lives of innocent Americans. If the high court agrees, it will wipe away one of the last vestiges of what Justice Louis Brandeis called our "right to be let alone." We may give up our names and identification easily when using a credit card at the mall or meeting new business associates, but these voluntary actions are a far sight from being forced to through the coercive power of the state.

Police already have broad authority to ask anyone questions in the course of investigating a crime or mollifying a suspicion. They can also pat down a suspect to determine whether he or she is carrying a weapon. But what separates our free nation from those that are not, is that no one can be compelled to affirmatively answer police questions. While most of us would probably cooperate with police, we cannot be forced to do so. This difference is not the trifle Young suggested, it is the whole megillah of liberty.

Just ask Edward Lawson, an African-American man who was arrested repeatedly while walking in a San Diego suburb in the mid-1970s because he refused to identify himself. The police stops were obviously racially motivated. And in 1983, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled the statute Lawson was arrested under unconstitutionally vague. But the court should have gone further and declared that each of us has the right to be anonymous in our wanderings. That omission should be rectified in the Hiibel case.

"What's in a name?" Shakespeare asked.

Only the entirety of American freedom.
This bring to mind a question: One of our Miranda rights is "The Right To Remain Silent." If we really do have that right, how can a person be arrested for remaining silent in the face of police questioning?

Or do we really not have that "right" until the police "give" it to us?
 
Hiibel was argued on March 22, 2004. The decision, against Hiibel, was handed down on June 21, 2004. You can read the decision here.

Old News.
 
Don-
Yep, and we lost that one.

See, for too many, there is no difference between your voluntary act of using a credit card for a purchase and .Gov's coercive act of forcing you to identify yourself when in public.

Cliche, though it may be:
"We're at War" and "If you have nothing to hide...." seems to be the Y2K mantra of American Citizens; even for many in the armchair, "from my cold, dead fingers" crowd. They'll gladly sell out the "wackos" while holding forth on their personal rights to own and carry dangerous, easily-concealed weapons. In short, like too many in the Left/Right/Middle, they're simply more frightened of the Boogey-Man than the evils that the Founding Fathers warned of.

Go figure.
Rich
 
steelheart: Here's a question for the jackleg lawyers in the house:

Does one have Miranda rights only when being arrested, or do those rights pertain all the time?
 
Exactly - that's the question I was getting at -
One of our Miranda rights is "The Right To Remain Silent." If we really do have that right, how can a person be arrested for remaining silent in the face of police questioning?

Or do we really not have that "right" until the police "give" it to us?
According to the Supreme Court decision, we have no choice - we must tell the police our name.

But what if they demand "identification?" A driver's license or other "identifdication" has much more information on it than just your name. Is giving "identification" upon demand compulsory too?

Attorneys, do some lawyering for us here.;)
 
"Papers, please" *shiver*

How many times have I said it? This place is looking more and more like the old Soviet Union everyday.
 
See, for too many, there is no difference between your voluntary act of using a credit card for a purchase and .Gov's coercive act of forcing you to identify yourself when in public.
What happens when the government buys back almost all outstanding cash, and effectively deputizes credit card companies and banks as required agents in the BNW of exclusively-digital financial transactions? Is it still voluntary, because you aren't forced, at gunpoint, to buy anything?
 
I think in most states the law says if you have a driver's license it must be presented to a police officer on demand. That would make sense when you are stopped for a traffic violation, yet you can be given a citation for refusing to hand over your DL whether a pedestrian or sitting in a restaurant. I'm not sure about state identification cards for non-drivers however.

What's been lost in the last generation or two is cooperation -- from the police. I recall my father being approached by a cop and asked for his ID in the 50's. He asked "What's this all about?" before even reaching for his wallet. The officer explained what it was about, dad showed his ID and the officer thanked him and that was that. I've had the fun of a similar situation and asking the same question only to get a cold, "Let me see your ID" response back. Even after showing the ID, he refused to comment which I can interpret one of two ways -- If he doesn't say, I can't judge if it might be an unwarranted intrusion. The other is that lawyerism "we can't comment about ongoing investigations". :barf:
 
Antipitas can probably clarify but, to my read, SCOTUS side stepped the question of presenting papers in Hiibel. While they ruled that you must give your name to Law Enforcement, on demand, the Hiibel video shows Dep Sheriff Dove repeatedly asking Hiibel for "Identification".

It's just a question of time before someone is asked to present his "papers" to corroborate his verbal response. Then the Courts will get to clarify whether Hiibel requires identity papers.

BTW, I read hiibel as follows: If you're a wanted felon, it is not illegal to refuse your name since this would constitute self incrimination. Only the law abiding are at risk for their answer. I could be wrong, but I don't see any other way to read it.
Rich
 
Attorneys, do some lawyering for us here.
Send my lawyer some money (a retainer),agree to pay his rate and he will expound opinions by the hour. :D But he will make it clear that they are just that, opinions. Case Law and precedence decides how we are interpreting the law as of right now. Any judge in a higher court can counter a lower courts decision. Even SCOTUS has been known to reverse itself.:confused:

Dean
 
Talk about hypocrisy

What in the hell are you talking about steelheart? You're the one who is constantly claiming that Shrub can do no wrong, despite constant intrusion into our right to be left alone with warrantless wiretaps, warrantless phone record spying, imprisonment without trial of American citizens (Padilla), etc. And this ruling by the Nevada court is right in line with Shrub's reasoning and approach. We're at war, minor inconvenience, got to protect ourselves from terrorists (as if they'd give their real name if they're on some terrorist watch list, anyway).

But great point - thanks for bringing up some truth for once, for a change.
 
First Freedom, you are fabricating baseless allegations

What in the hell are you talking about steelheart? You're the one who is constantly claiming that Shrub can do no wrong,

First Freedom, that is complete 100% sheer unadulterated "Steer Feces." :barf:

I challenge you to quote me in one post - just one - where I have said anything that remotely resembles your baseless allegation. Just one. You can't do it, Bub. You are fabricating baseless tripe. You are blowing Ganja smoke up everyone's bunghole.

Has "Shrub," as you call him, done things that are Constitutionally - and therefore ethically - questionable? Yes. More than once.

Such as signing McCain's so-called "campaign finance reform" bill into law, which was nothing more than a gag order against the NRA and other progun advocacy groups 60 days prior to a Presifdential election. Such as making it possible for a U.S. citizen to be held indefinitely without being charged with a crime, without access to legal counsel, or without being advised of the allegations against him/her.

These are actions which are unconstitutional, unlawful, unethical, unamerican, outrageous and aggregious in the extreme.


These "laws" should be struck down and all who assisted in their being instituted should have their b@lls busted for it. There is plenty of blame to go around for both Republicans and Democrats regarding both these issues - and others.

Did I support Bush? Yes. Am I disillusioned with him? Yes. Is Bush without sin? NO. But then, I never once said he was, contrary to your baseless and fabricated allegation.
 
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The law in Hiibel turns on the Nevada statute, which says that you have to ID yourself when stopped by a law enforcement officer (known as a "Terry Stop").

The state contended that failure to show ID when asked escalates the Terry Stop from one of Reasonable Suspicion to Probable Cause. The state also contends that Hiibel violated the Nevada Revised Statutes (NRS) 171.123 in that he failed to provide ID when he was seized by a police officer on less than Probable Cause. Hiibel was then convicted on NRS 199.280, a misdeamor.

NRS 171.123 Temporary detention by peace officer of person suspected of criminal behavior or of violating conditions of parole or probation: Limitations.

1. Any peace officer may detain any person whom the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime.

3. The officer may detain the person pursuant to this section only to ascertain his identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding his presence abroad. Any person so detained shall identify himself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer.


Hiibel should have simply stated his name. At which point this would possibly have settled the matter. Hiibel refused. The lower courts ruled that Hiibel must provide positive ID. This means showing your DL or State issued ID. The Supreme Court never ruled on this, so the lower courts ruling are precedent.

The upshot is that if your state has a similar statute, then you will probably be required to provide positive ID. Hiibel will be used to enforce the lower court's percedent.
 
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