Ordinances, C&R and Chicago Stigmata

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shaunpain

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Ordinances, C&R and Chicago Gun Laws

I have a question concerning the utility of acquiring a C&R license within Chicago city limits. I have decided to post my query in the Law and Civil Rights section as it will be framed squarely within the confines of Chicago municipal ordinances and their affects in a new conceal carry state.

A few years ago while researching into the Curios and Relics license I quickly found out how futile it would be in Chicago, but with the new political landscape I thought about revisiting my options again. Let's lay out a few things first that I am almost certain about:

1. Handgun regulation is solely a function of the state and no magazine restrictions are in place.
2. The Blair Holt ordinance exists, but is going through changes and from what I understand is not currently enforceable as written. In essence, it is not enforced at all in courts currently.
3. Chicago's AWB will still consider some C&R eligible firearms ineligible for possession within city limits.
4. A supreme court has required Chicago to craft a law allowing the sale of firearms and ammunition within city limits. The law has been crafted but no gun shops or ranges yet exist here.
5. Ammunition shipments are not illegal in Chicago, however, few companies will sell to a Chicago address out of ignorance of current laws. The same goes for high capacity magazines (intended for handguns, of course).

After a year of waiting for updated ordinances, laws and policies, I'm still not getting the information I need. I realize that many online FFLs will not release transfers to Chicago and sometimes the entirety of Cook County. My question is what current ordinances (enforceable ones that comply with new state laws) are preventing distributors from doing so? Are ammunition bans through the mail still a reality, legally, in Chicago city limits or in Cook county? Is it just the policy of distributors holding over from the good-ole-days making the inaccessibility of C&Rs and ammunition a reality in Chicago? Is it true that handguns cannot be shipped within the city still, and if so, how is it allowed to flourish with state pre-emption in place?

I'm hoping to find some of you here with a little more knowledge than me and figure out a solid legal ground with which to stand on. I'd love to get the C&R, it is not an expensive endeavor and would love the benefits that it entails. However, without any updated laws from our government or the updated shipping policies of distributors I am left wondering what perspective I should have with my head facing into the future. Is it worth it for a Chicago resident to pursue a C&R as long as he's buying within the AWB? Why aren't handguns allowed to be shipped after the supreme court lifted the gun sales ban? Is it just conservative marshaling of company lawyers? Is it local cargo and mail policy? Are there new published ordinances still disallowing the mailing of firearms and ammunition?

Loaded questions, I know, and I thank you to whoever can throw their hat in the ring. Hope you had a great weekend!
 
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I'm a bit confounded by your opening post.

Are you asking specifically about the legality of shipping C&R firearms to Chicago, the legalities of obtaining a license there, the general legality of collecting C&R firearms in Chicago, or all of the above?

That said, here are a few general answers.

A C&R FFL holder does not automatically get a free pass from state and local laws regarding the possession of firearms. If possession or receipt of a particular type of firearm or magazine is prohibited by a local AWB-style law, a C&R holder cannot receive or possess that type of firearm or magazine based on having the license, unless the law makes a specific allowance for this.

I am far from an expert on IL or Chicago law, but as a previous C&R FFL, I briefly checked IL law in response to a pre-bid question on GB, and it's my understanding that an IL C&R FFL must still have a FOID card to lawfully receive firearms, and that the FFL sending that person a firearm must receive a copy of the FOID card and keep it on file for some matter of years, regardless of where he/she is located. [Please be aware that my understanding could be wrong!] Some FFL's outside of IL apparently just don't want to be bothered with this. (I volunteered to take a copy of the potential buyer's FOID card, but he/she wound up not winning the auction.)

Detailed regulations regarding the mailing of firearms by C&R licensees (called "licensed curio and relic collectors" by the US Postal Service) may be found in USPS Publication 52, Section 432. In short, it's lawful for a C&R FFL to send or receive a mailable C&R rifle or shotgun by mail (Pub. 52 432.3.h), but it's ONLY lawful for him or her to send or receive a handgun or other "firearm capable of being concealed on the person" by mail if that firearm is an antique (Pub. 52 432.2.a and 431.3). [I strongly recommend consulting THIS TFL THREAD for further discussion of the definitions of "mailable" and "firearm capable of being concealed on the person".]

The mailing of live ammunition and small arms primers is prohibited, regardless of destination (Pub. 52 341.21.c). However, these items may be sent via common carrier, such as UPS or FedEx.
 
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Apologize for the confusion of my post. It very closely resembles the internal dialogue I am having with myself so it is very free form and not very coherent. The old post has answered a lot of the questions I had with information I wasn't seeing anywhere else. I just wasn't looking hard enough I suppose!

I think I got everything I needed from the post you linked so thank you very much for that. I think the C&R will still be worth it to me.
 
I live in Chicago proper, the Albany Park neighborhood. I got my C&R in December 2013 and so far I have ordered and had delivered by UPS to my door a hex receiver Mosin-Nagant m91/30, a Romanian TTC pistol, and a Yugo SKS (PAP) m59/66A1 which is NOT covered by Chicago's AWB. I have also ordered a crate of Russian milsurp 7.62x54R to feed the Mosin.

While you might have difficulty finding some dealers willing to ship to Chicago (even though there's no law against it) you'll find some that will. SOG is my go-to dealer, they have my 03 FFL, FOID, and driver's license on file.

I'm hoping this will get better soon since Chicago had to re-write their ordinances to allow gun stores in the city limits. No longer on the books, for example, is the law forbidding transfer of firearms and ammunition within the city. But not many retailers seem to be aware of that fact yet!
 
Now THAT REALLY answered my questions. This is great news. I'm right down the street in Humboldt Park. Your help has in invaluable. Filling out the paperwork tonight.
 
The reason so few dealers will ship to Chicago (and many other places) is the cost of ensuring they are in compliance with the multiplicity of laws.

And because there is also the possibility of what is legal to ship today might be illegal to receive tomorrow (when it gets there).

its a business decision, basically, they weigh the expected sales loss against the cost of keeping constant track of the legality of a small number of products in a variety of different locations, often with differing degrees of what is, and isn't legal.

So, to avoid the whole mess, they simply do a blanket "we don't ship these there" policy.

The fact that the business profit/loss vs. cost model often happens to track with the political sentiments of gun owners and sometimes gun makers is generally a co-incidence.

On the other hand, there are times when it is done AS a political statement, and I commend those who do so for putting principle ahead of potential profit.

Barrett, for one, stated they would happily sell to the citizens of CA, if allowed to, but will NOT sell, (or service) the CA state government, or its minions!
 
I think most of the time they simply copy big retailer's policies and never check the legality themselves. As evidence look at all the retailers who say they won't ship to "Cooke" County, IL. I've seen that misspelling on too many sites for it to be a coincidence.
 
For the record some of the bigger online retailers now will ship ammo to Chicago so long as they have your FOID on file. Examples are Midway and Graf & Sons. Cabela's is still a "no" but we're working on changing their minds!
 
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