first let me start out by saying that i have almost no experience with revolvers. i do have quite a bit of experience with pistols - i am an auto pistol guy. however, i have always had a fascination with "cowboy" type single action revolvers in .45LC. i've read a bit on some of the safety issues - only loading 5 rounds and hammer down on an empty chamber, etc. what do you reccomend in a quality yet affordable cowboy gun? i'm looking for something affordable - NO Colts!!!
opinions on SA revolvers in .45LC...
- Thread starter pokey074
- Start date
Desert Dog
New member
Ruger Blackhawk....
The Ruger Vaquero has the traditional single action "look", along with a modern and very strong frame and action. The Vaquero's fixed sights are a trade-off providing a little less versatility, but with a more traditional appearance than the Blackhawk. Both are excellent and very practical handguns.
Doc Hudson
New member
Pokey,
I am a big Ruger Blackhawk fan, I have three at this time.
If you want a gun for hunting, get a .45 LC Blackhawk. They are hell for stout and will accept near .454 Casull level loads. You can kill anything with four feed with a .45 Blackhawk and the proper load.
If you just want a plinker, trail gun, Cowboy Action Shooting gun, get one of the Italian SAA copies. Most are made by Uberti, or Armi San Marcos and are marketed under a host of names. The Italian SAA's will not digest the heavy loads a Ruger will take, but they are light and elegant.
If the trigger on an Italian SAA is not to your tastes, Tom Sargis of Bozeman Trail Arms, in Livingston MT, does a great job tuning SAA copies.
Of course the real solution is to buy both a Blackhawk and Italian SAA.
Regards,
Doc Hudson
I am a big Ruger Blackhawk fan, I have three at this time.
If you want a gun for hunting, get a .45 LC Blackhawk. They are hell for stout and will accept near .454 Casull level loads. You can kill anything with four feed with a .45 Blackhawk and the proper load.
If you just want a plinker, trail gun, Cowboy Action Shooting gun, get one of the Italian SAA copies. Most are made by Uberti, or Armi San Marcos and are marketed under a host of names. The Italian SAA's will not digest the heavy loads a Ruger will take, but they are light and elegant.
If the trigger on an Italian SAA is not to your tastes, Tom Sargis of Bozeman Trail Arms, in Livingston MT, does a great job tuning SAA copies.
Of course the real solution is to buy both a Blackhawk and Italian SAA.
Regards,
Doc Hudson
One cool thing about either Ruger variant...
The Ruger SAs that have been made for the last 20+ years have a fully modern transfer safety every bit as good as any modern DA revolver. If you took a Vaquero back to 1880 or whatever, a gunsmith of that period would think it was entirely conventional until he saw the trigger/hammer/safety assembly, at which point he'd go "what the hell is this?".
They *can* be carried "six-up". This is NOT true of the Italian "clones". The new Colt Cowboy is also a transfer-bar gun but it's an utter piece of crap by all accounts. The Italian stuff is often quite good, but in my opinion the lack of modern safeties render them "toys only"...I wouldn't carry them hunting or as a wilderness survival/defense guns.
The Rugers excel as "outdoorsmen's guns".
Jim
The Ruger SAs that have been made for the last 20+ years have a fully modern transfer safety every bit as good as any modern DA revolver. If you took a Vaquero back to 1880 or whatever, a gunsmith of that period would think it was entirely conventional until he saw the trigger/hammer/safety assembly, at which point he'd go "what the hell is this?".
They *can* be carried "six-up". This is NOT true of the Italian "clones". The new Colt Cowboy is also a transfer-bar gun but it's an utter piece of crap by all accounts. The Italian stuff is often quite good, but in my opinion the lack of modern safeties render them "toys only"...I wouldn't carry them hunting or as a wilderness survival/defense guns.
The Rugers excel as "outdoorsmen's guns".
Jim
Doc Hudson
New member
"six-up". This is NOT true of the Italian "clones"
Jim,
While your statement was true in the past, it is not true regarding current products of Uberti. Go to a gun shop and look at a new one. It has a sort of hammer blocking safety installed ans is allegedly capable of being carried with all cylinders loaded.
I carry my Uberti with five beans in the wheel. i carry my Rugers the same way. Why? Long years of habit.
BTW, do you also consider the original Colt Single Action Army Revolver in all of it's generations and variations as toys? Including the New Frontier's?
Doc Hudson
Jim,
While your statement was true in the past, it is not true regarding current products of Uberti. Go to a gun shop and look at a new one. It has a sort of hammer blocking safety installed ans is allegedly capable of being carried with all cylinders loaded.
I carry my Uberti with five beans in the wheel. i carry my Rugers the same way. Why? Long years of habit.
BTW, do you also consider the original Colt Single Action Army Revolver in all of it's generations and variations as toys? Including the New Frontier's?
Doc Hudson
Re: the Uberti safety...
I've heard mixed opinions on the Uberti hammer-mounted safety. I'll have to go look at the latest incarnations.
I hope it's true about that safety being worth a dang...the Uberti factory bird's-head in .357 has always looked like a tasty little critter.
By "toys", I spoke incorrectly, or at least incompletely. I'd use a true "five-up-gun" for target, SASS-type competition and the like, but not for street defense or wilderness survival. I know they can do it, but a true safety gives a little extra measure of support in court if necessary, and hey, six rounds really is better than five.
As to carrying a genuine Colt SAA, aren't they a tad pricey for that
?
Update: I just went to the Uberti "safety page", at:
http://www.uberti.com/ - then click on "safety".
What they're doing is interesting, but...if I'm reading this right, once it's at the half-cock loading position, the safety is already off? Does it re-engage if the hammer should slip forward from that point?
In the Ruger system, the safety is continuously engaged through the entire hammer travel. There's several different alterations available to get a true half-cock loading position (which also lines the cylinder bores up with the loading gate properly). The Alpha Precision system by Jim Stroh is one, another answer is a free-wheel pawl. But either way, the safety isn't affected - only trigger pressure disengages it.
Does anybody have more supporting info on the Uberti safety? I'll be the first to admit I know the modern Ruger safety but not the Uberti beyond the poor pics on the Uberti site.
Jim
I've heard mixed opinions on the Uberti hammer-mounted safety. I'll have to go look at the latest incarnations.
I hope it's true about that safety being worth a dang...the Uberti factory bird's-head in .357 has always looked like a tasty little critter
.By "toys", I spoke incorrectly, or at least incompletely. I'd use a true "five-up-gun" for target, SASS-type competition and the like, but not for street defense or wilderness survival. I know they can do it, but a true safety gives a little extra measure of support in court if necessary, and hey, six rounds really is better than five
.As to carrying a genuine Colt SAA, aren't they a tad pricey for that
?Update: I just went to the Uberti "safety page", at:
http://www.uberti.com/ - then click on "safety".
What they're doing is interesting, but...if I'm reading this right, once it's at the half-cock loading position, the safety is already off? Does it re-engage if the hammer should slip forward from that point?
In the Ruger system, the safety is continuously engaged through the entire hammer travel. There's several different alterations available to get a true half-cock loading position (which also lines the cylinder bores up with the loading gate properly). The Alpha Precision system by Jim Stroh is one, another answer is a free-wheel pawl. But either way, the safety isn't affected - only trigger pressure disengages it.
Does anybody have more supporting info on the Uberti safety? I'll be the first to admit I know the modern Ruger safety but not the Uberti beyond the poor pics on the Uberti site.
Jim
Thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in. If you can find a Viginian Dragoon by Interarms they are a good gun. I have one in .44 mag and I really like it(almost bought one in .45). They were very strong, well made guns, that sadly, in my opinion are no longer in production. They appear to be as strong as the Rugers, but if anyone out there knows for sure I wouldn't mind being brought up to date. I shoot some fairly stout handloads out of mine with no adverse effects. They have a safety system called a "swiss safe" that I don' like. The base pin has two locking grooves, and the pin can be pushed past the recoil shield and locked preventing the hammer from striking the firing pin. It's just too awkward to use so I don't use it. It also has two index marks over one cylinder so it is easy to know which cylinder you skipped loading, when carrying it in the conventional manner with only five rounds loaded. This gun is a nice alternative to the Rugers, if you like to be a little bit different.
Weird safeties, the law, and YOU
The "Swiss safe" that Henry describes is found on some of the Italian guns too. As he says, few people use 'em - they leave 'em off and treat the gun as a five-shot at all times.
What's going on here is that under the Fed Gun Control Act of '68, imported guns are legal or illegal for import based on "points". Adjustable sights are worth a "point", so are safety systems, thumbrest target grips, and revolvers are judged a bit less harshly I think? There's also minimum barrel length rules. Anyways, the fixed-sight cowboy guns wouldn't quite make it unless they had *some* kind of safety system, but transfer bars can make the trigger feel a bit screwy unless it's done very well. The "Swiss safe" was meant to meet the "has a safety" checkmark on the import form without really being very useful. It appears that Uberti's newest safety is a set up from that, although I question whether it's as good as a transfer bar or true hammerblock safety.
(As an aside: Taurus snubbies come into the country with long barrels, and get US-made short tubes in-country. Why? GCA68. How many small overseas autos have you seen with wierd thumbrest grips? Yep...GCA68 again...gives 'em a "sporting use" point. Glocks come in with a horrendous plastic adjustable rear sight...they ditch 'em and stick good fixed sights on right here in the USofA. Why? GCA68. And no, Glock doesn't have a huge pile of bad sights sitting around - they send 'em back to Austria. Some o' the damnthings are probably a decade old or more and have more frequent-flyer miles than your average CEO .)
Jim
The "Swiss safe" that Henry describes is found on some of the Italian guns too. As he says, few people use 'em - they leave 'em off and treat the gun as a five-shot at all times.
What's going on here is that under the Fed Gun Control Act of '68, imported guns are legal or illegal for import based on "points". Adjustable sights are worth a "point", so are safety systems, thumbrest target grips, and revolvers are judged a bit less harshly I think? There's also minimum barrel length rules. Anyways, the fixed-sight cowboy guns wouldn't quite make it unless they had *some* kind of safety system, but transfer bars can make the trigger feel a bit screwy unless it's done very well. The "Swiss safe" was meant to meet the "has a safety" checkmark on the import form without really being very useful
. It appears that Uberti's newest safety is a set up from that, although I question whether it's as good as a transfer bar or true hammerblock safety.(As an aside: Taurus snubbies come into the country with long barrels, and get US-made short tubes in-country. Why? GCA68. How many small overseas autos have you seen with wierd thumbrest grips? Yep...GCA68 again...gives 'em a "sporting use" point. Glocks come in with a horrendous plastic adjustable rear sight...they ditch 'em and stick good fixed sights on right here in the USofA. Why? GCA68. And no, Glock doesn't have a huge pile of bad sights sitting around - they send 'em back to Austria
. Some o' the damnthings are probably a decade old or more and have more frequent-flyer miles than your average CEO .)Jim
Bill Adair
New member
Pokey,
You have some very good input already, and the only thing I would add, is get a Blackhawk just for the advantage of adjustable sights!
Take your pick between the convertable, and single caliber as you wish, but the adjustable sights are so useful, you won't want to be without!
There is such a great range of loads available, and reloadable, in the excellent 45 Colt caliber, that fixed sights just won't do it justice! I shoot everything in mine from SAA light loads, to John Linebaugh boulder busters, and the sights can just be tweaked to suit the load.
That being said, if you care only about group size, the fixed sights will usually keep you on the paper. I must say though, that I've yet to find fixed sights as easy to shoot accurately as adjustable sights.
Bill
You have some very good input already, and the only thing I would add, is get a Blackhawk just for the advantage of adjustable sights!
Take your pick between the convertable, and single caliber as you wish, but the adjustable sights are so useful, you won't want to be without!
There is such a great range of loads available, and reloadable, in the excellent 45 Colt caliber, that fixed sights just won't do it justice! I shoot everything in mine from SAA light loads, to John Linebaugh boulder busters, and the sights can just be tweaked to suit the load.
That being said, if you care only about group size, the fixed sights will usually keep you on the paper. I must say though, that I've yet to find fixed sights as easy to shoot accurately as adjustable sights.
Bill