Opinions on a Carbon 15?

K

krept

New member
If everything goes right, I should have around one thousand dollars to spend on a rifle. Without getting into specifics, it is not going to be for hunting, but basically for long range plinking and as a long arm compliment for my handgun. I prefer the rifle to be semi auto.

Several choices have crossed my mind. They are as follows:

- M1A: My favorite rifle, but a little too expensive (rifle and .308 ammo) for me right now. Will do this later when I have the funds.

- AK-47. I was looking at the Bulgarian ones or ones with Bulg. milled receivers. These are great, but I had my sights set on one with polymer furniture from Tennessee Guns, but from the looks of it they have run out?

- Carbon 15. Looks great, feels good in the hand. BUT, pretty uncommon. Never heard from anyone owning one or any problems with the company or the rifles.

I really don't mind either the 7.62 x 39 or the .223. The ammo is basically around the same price, give or take a few. The .223 naturally appeals to me as it is flatter shooting and I do intend on plinking at least at 100 yards or so with it. I don't plan on moving serious amounts of ammo through the rifle without cleaning it so (hopefully) malfunctions shouldn't be that much of a problem as many attribute to neglect of the AR style mechanism.

I AM, however, looking specifically for a rifle that does have a pistol grip. Admittedly, I do not know much about the SKS line of weapons, but have heard they are superior in accuracy to the AK line. All of them that I have seen, however, do not have PG stocks - only thumbholes, which I do not care for.

Soo... from the little that I know about rifles, the Carbon 15 looked the best to me. Does anyone have any info about it or any input regarding the aforementioned choices? I appreciate it...

Thanks,
Erik
 
Well... I own a Carbon-15, and I'll have to say, it's a really neat little rifle. It's truly a shame that I can't really recommend it to you, since mine hasn't yet been rendered reliable. If you check in at ar15.com, they have a Professional Ordnance section, and you'll see plenty of bitching about these guns.

It's a great idea, but I don't think they have quite worked the bugs out yet. Mine is back at PO, hopefully they'll sort it out and I'll have a working rifle.

For an AR, I'd recommend one of the lightweight CAR models build on a standard AR receiver. It'll be much easier to maintain, and parts will be easier to come by.
 
You don't specifically mention the AR-15 (other than the Carbon 15). Your budget will certainly allow you to get a Bushmaster or Colt (post-ban) rifle. The Colt Lightweight (16") is an excellent choice in a fixed carry handle configuration. I have about 2000 rounds through mine now and it has never malfunctioned. It shoots fine out to 300 yards.

John
 
Good info, thanks.

Actually, I am still looking at the AR style rifles. When you say it shoots fine to about 300 yards, do you think you would be able to hit a gallon jug at that distance? I plan using those and other objects about that size and if you can consistently hit then at 200 or so yards, it is exactly what I would be looking for, especially if its in that price range. I'd even go for one used.

When you say it is in a fixed handle postion, what optics can you use? I'm not familiar with the details of the AR family rifles but are the iron sights with the fixed handle good enough?

Thanks again for the help.
Erik
 
I see Bushmaster mentioned. DPMS, Inc makes ARs that are equivalent in quality to Bushmaster, and cost a bit less. I have a Panther A15 rifle with 16" fluted bbl, A2 upper and E3 sights that I acquired for $800 total.

------------------
Pray as though it's all up to God, act as though it's all up to you.

Aim small- miss small...

If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!
 
The iron sites are good on ARs. Most people in my club's hi-power league use AR rifles (souped up ones) with great results @ 600, 300 and 200. Standard models should handle 300 well. hint: get a Bushmaster :)
 
Regarding Bushmaster, take a look at this rifle: http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa3s16.htm

Had many people recommend this carbine for various reasons. A3 top is very adaptable to various sighting systems. No 'AK' muzzle break, which many people seem to buy for the looks, and then end up complaining about the noise at the range. Short and easy to handle, and yet still seems to perform decently at long range (however, if long range work is really the main purpose of the rifle, you'll probably want to look at one of their other models).

Anyway, just a thought. Bushmaster seems to be one of the, if not the most highly thought of AR. And, as noted above, take a long look at www.ar15.com , especially their discussion forum. Gives you a good feel for the various choices, and opinions on performance.

Good luck. Regards from AZ

ps - a purchase like this will also allow you to spare around $200 for magazines as well ... not a small consideration.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited September 03, 2000).]
 
If you're still interested in a carbon, go to AR15.com, there's a manufacturer's section. I don't own one, but there seems to be a lot of complaining from guys who do.
 
I purchased my Carbon 15 ten months ago. I owned a Bushmaster Shorty AK and had to return it a couple of time to the factory for failure to feed. My Carbon 15 has yet to fail to do anything and it is about 3/4 MOA out of the box. Maybe I got lucky, but it was the best $999 I have spent on any gun. It now has a Hakko red dot sight and a TacStar 2000 light attached to the barrel. This gun is easier to point than anything that I have handled. The muzzle brake is very effective and allows for great accuracy and little weight. I understood that the first production runs had serious problems, but I can't complain. I would not trade my Carbon 15 for any of the guns on your list.
 
Well, I checked out the AR15 board and saw the problems with the Carbon 15s. Ironically, I had a Para-Ordnance 1911 pistol that had many of the same problems as the Professional Ordnance rifles - frequent jams, keyholing, loose rear sight. I guess I'm better off staying away from the companies with names that are "P-Ordnance."

I really like the Bushmaster rifle that Jeff linked to (A3 top) and now I am going to have to struggle with the shorty style or full length barrel. Is there that much of a weight difference? It would be nice to milk every bit of accuracy as possible out of the rifle, but portability is also a concern. If I can hit a gallon jug out to 200 yards or so with the shorty, that is fine enough for me.

Does anyone have any suggestions where I can purchase one of these for a good price? I live in the Phoenix area and would prefer not to go through the out of state channels, but I will do so if it would save money.

Again, thanks for all the help, everyone. You have already saved me much time and frustration.

Erik
 
Krept,

Most AR15s will happily hit gallon milk jug sized targets at 200-300 yards if you do your part. I use an ACOG Compact scope (2x20) mounted on the carry handle of my Lightweight Colt and have little difficulty hitting our club's 24" steel gong at those ranges. If you have the eyes for it (I don't) the iron sights will do the job also. With the 4x32 ACOG mounted on the carry handle of my 16" Colt HBAR it's an easy shot. You can mount most scopes on the carry handle, although if you were planning to use the rifle for mainly long distance stuff, I would consider buying a flat-top model and mounting the scope directly to the receiver.

I would definitely go for the carbine (16" barrel) unless you plan to shoot High Power Rifle.

John
 
I had a friend who bought one when they first came out. He wound up sending it back because the chamber was way to tight. If I remember right it was one of the first ones with a parkerized barrel instead of the stainless.

That was a while ago though, I don't know how much better they are now.

And don't let the price of .308 scare you, if you check in the Shotgun News you can buy cases of military surplus for not a whole lot more than comparable .223. :D Just thought I would confuse matters a little more for you.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gary H:
My Carbon 15 has yet to fail to do anything and it is about 3/4 MOA out of the box. Maybe I got lucky, but it was the best $999 I have spent on any gun.[/quote]

No maybe about it, if you have not had a problem yet with the Carbon-15, you most certainly got lucky! :)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Correia:
And don't let the price of .308 scare you[/quote]

What does that have to do with any of the rifles we're talking about? They're all .223 guns.
 
I had one. Sold it.

Never had any problems, just needed the money.(taxes suck!)

Would I buy one again?
Probably not. Not standard enough, but a sure lot of fun and cool factor.

TR
 
Johnwill, check the first gun mentioned in the very first post in this thread. Just trying to help him keep all his options open.

"- M1A: My favorite rifle, but a little too expensive (rifle and .308 ammo) for me right now. Will do this later when I have the funds." krept.
 
OK, he mentioned it in passing. :)

I didn't go back to the start, since we were really talking about AR's for the whole thread, but you win this round. :)
 
My Bushmaster Shorty with free-floated barrel and JP trigger/hammer combo has shot a bunch of .5" groups at 100 yds. I do have a 6-20X50mm scope on it, which makes longer-range shooting easier.

A friend of mine shot my rifle out to 400 yds and was able to decimate a 4"X6" board. I don't think that you'll have any trouble shooting at 200 yds with a Bushmaster, even if you go with the 16" barrel. I like the feel of the 16" barrel better than the 20" barrel.
 
If you're looking for a plinking rifle, and one that will shoot gallon jugs at 300 yds, get an SA2000M. It's a Kalashnikov variant with an American synthetic stock. Not quite thumbhole, as it's more pistol gripped with a little piece of the stock connecting the grip to the stock. These very good Hungarian rifles go for $200 each, and are great. Top it with a Kobra collimator sight ($150) and you're really rocking ver very little money. It's not a long range rifle, but at 300 yds and less, it'll do you proud, and your friends will drool. Just don't tell them how little you spent.
 
I have a Bushmaster Dissipator and Colt lightweight sporter, and both are great rifles. For awhile I also had a Carbon 15. It was extremely unreliable, even after being sent back to the factory. The Colt is very light, but just heavy enough. When the Carbon 15 did work, its light weight made the felt recoil close to unpleasant.
 
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