opinion on 1873 lever action 357's

M

mickb

Inactive
Hi, my first post and looking to get my first lever gun. Wondered if anyone could assist. I am looking to get an 1873 as heard they were good actions for cowboy action shooting and performers in the field as well. Am looking at a 357 and prefer long barrels to keep blast away from my ears these days.

1. Is there much to separate a modern 24" winchester and similar in uberti?

2. I believe 38 special won't feed well in these. Does that mean won't feed at all, or just won't feed slickly for competition?

3.Is it realistic to handload a 357 subsonic load that runs safely in a 24" barrel? I'd also like to use this for plinking and pests on the farm, but don't want to risk bullets stukck in the barrel.

4. Being modern versions chambered for 357 I assume it will handle full power loads? I'd like to run a heavy hardcast for serious stuff.

5. its sacrilegous to put a scope on these but worst case can it be done?

6. Really weird one. But as I haven't used full power 357 in levergun, would pundits say its quieter than 30-30? what about a long barrel 12ga?

Thanks for any help. I am researching the above and any advice appreciated.
 
I can't answer all of your questions but for #2 I'll say yes .38 Spl wont feed as smoothly but it certainly works. I stick with larger bullets, namely 158g for that to help with feeding.
 
A few random ideas.

First, I prefer the 1892 clones over the 1873. Not a big deal or problem, with one over the other. I just like the short light, smooth and stronger action of the 92. Those 73's are an armful to deal with.

For calibers, the 44mag and 357 are both excellent for thier intended uses. I also like the 44/40 which is a mild and quiet round that is authentic and while I have no experience it should be easy and versatile to reload.

I have no experience with 357 in any rifle, BUT, the SHOULD feed 38 special. My 44mag's all take 44 special, no problem. That includes a Model 92. I certainly would expect a model 92 to handle the 38 specials.

Yes, I do think a scope on a 73 would look out of place and really why suffer all the disadvantages of a 73 and then slap on a scope? No, not me. Possible, maybe a historic old long tube scope with $1,000,000 mounts. There is an answer, the Marlin lever. There are many good used 44mag marlins. I think Marlin did a 357 or the new Marlin might be offered the 357. I would look hard at the marlin options with a scope and you can always reload. The Marlin will feed mild old lead bullet 44 special ammo.

I am not a fan of the Henry levers, but I would wild guess they offer a 357 on a gun that can take a scope. I will lets others talk to that.

Speed of sound, 1000 feet per second, no problem, all day long. here is a good hunting load, 800 f/s 38 special. I am sure you can run something like this in a cast bullet.

http://www.hornady.com/store/38-Special-158-gr-XTP/
 
I forgot about the 45 colt. I guess, becasue I dont like historic old style elver guns in a non authentic calibers. But that is not the question here.

There are many lever rifles offered in 45 colt some will take a scope and there are long barrel guns. Not my cup of tea, so; I cannot make a solid recommendation. Others might be able to say more.

Mild, low power loads, petty much SOP for cowboy shooting in 45 LC. Lots of factory ammo for that too.

I assume you already shoot and load 357, so; this this is just a FWIW, post. I am sure you can find some other 357 options too.
 
Thanks 4bore. I think my wish of a 24" barrel might make the difference to some of the above though...
Henry I don't think does one that long, marlins is out of production but may be able to find one used. Rossi 92 does a 24" yes.

As to the load I think in 24" it will be over 1100fps given those loads are probably from handgun barrels... I am guessing published velocities I will have to add 300-400fps?
 
Thanks for the info on the 45. yes I'm set up for 357 for this project. I don't handload yet, its another part of my plan. Hence not sure where subsonics fit in such a relatively long barrel...
 
Last edited:
I agree that the 1892's action design is a better choice for the 357mag.

Ask the gunsmiths that work on the rifles and you'll find that a steady dose of 357mag or heavy 45 Colt in a 1873 action will stretch the frame over time and 'oval' the pins in the toggle link action. You see, the action was designed originally for black powder charges of the 1870s, not the high pressures generated by modern smokeless powders of today which produce bolt thrusts far in excess of the 2,500lbs max the actions were designed to.

Check out the bolt thrusts produced by the original loads vs those produced today by modern loads and you'll understand why the magnum calibers are so hard on the toggle link actions found in the '60, '66, and '73.

1873RifleBoltThrust.jpg


I have both a 24" Uberti '73 Special Sporting Rifle and a 19" Uberti '66 Yellowboy Carbine; both in 45 Colt. Because of the weaker toggle link actions of the rifles, I only shoot std pressure (under 14,000psi) loads through them. As you can see above, this is considerably below the 35,000psi of a 357mag; more in tune with a 38spl +P level load.

IMG_2244a_zpsd444fc8f.jpg


IMG_20140124_164944_297.jpg


The Rossi's Winchester 1892 action is significantly stronger than Uberti's Winchester '60, '66, and '73 toggle link action. I have 2 Rossi 357mags; a 24" rifle and a 20" carbine and they are super strong and capable of easily handling up to the 60,000cup 454 Casull round. That load level would destroy the '60, '66, and '73 toggle link action.

They are lbs lighter and thinner than the '66 or '73 and just a ton of fun to shoot as well as carry out in the field. I handload and load them up with full power, 158grn loads for great longer range shooting. The rifle with it's tang and globe sights is a favorite for shooting at steel plates at 300yds.

DSCN2840.jpg


DSCN2830.jpg


For full power 357mag shooting, I'd strongly suggest the Rossi's stronger action for fun, trouble free shooting over the weaker toggle link action rifles. BTW, I have 8 leverguns in 6 different calibers and the 357mags are by far the most fun, the most requested by friends, and the must used.
 
A .357 repro 1873 has been proof tested and will not blow up.
If you want to shoot a few Magnums for "serious purposes" you will not hurt it.
But it should be treated as a .38 for routine shooting.
There is a supplier to CAS who makes a bullet that seats out for .357 OAL in .38 brass. Or just download in Magnum cases and be sure to keep your loads separate. And don't ask your lever action to shoot semiwadcutters.
 
Jim Watson beat me to it: Forget about the 38Spl cases. Just load your .357cases down to 38Spl velocity. I gave up on 38Spl cases years ago. It's a pain keeping them separated and the 357's just feed better. Shoot the gun with the 38Spl loads in the 357mag cases and don't shoot a lot of .357mag out of it. Yes, it will handle the mag rounds, but it's a toggle link gun and if you do a LOT of shooting you may have a problem down the road. You can put a "scope" of sorts on the gun without making it look totally out of place. Turnbull makes a very small mount designed to accept a Burris FastFire2 or FastFire3 red dot sight. I played with one on my Win 1886 in 45-70 for a while and I was getting five shot groups under 1.7" at my private range of 114yds with monotonous regularity.
 
DSCN2840.jpg


This is a nice setup. I had an opportunity to shoot a friends 357 Ruger 77. It is sweet little rifle. I can understand the popularity of 357 rifles.
 
If you're choosing the 1873 for historical reasons I can't fault you. However, if you're looking for a general purpose lever action that will also be used in cowboy action shooting then the 1892 might be a better choice for you.

I have the Rossi 92 and it shoots and feeds everything from mild 38's to full power 357's. It amazed me with how well it feels all ammo types too from hollowpoints to semiwadcutters. Mileage does vary with these rifles from what I'm told though.
 
The 1873 is a pretty lame action. Shafter has it right. Cool historically for appearances, but...

I have a Marlin 1894 in .44mag. That is a serious brush rifle. The .357mag is too much for too little. Get a .44 and shoot mild loads. You'll be miles ahead in all respects.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top