Open Carry Experience

J

johnwilliamson062

Moderator
My Younger cousin was staying at my parents last week. She has horses at her home, about 15 minutes away she had to take care of each night. One of the nights she had some after school stuff and wasn't able to get out until after dark. Since no one was at her house etc. my Mom called me and asked me to go with her.
I am not an everyday everywhere carrier, but when someone asks you to basically escort another person, you had better take a gun, b/c if you don't and something does happen, you are going to look like a schmuck. It was raining so I just grabbed my big fat black G27 in OWB kydex paddle holster and donned my oversized raincoat I bought large enough to cover a small pack when I was fatter than I am now.
Get over to my moms pick her up go to her house walk around for 20 minutes with in the barns etc and head home. No one seems to notice b/c I have this sloppy big raincoat on. I get back to my moms and decide to hang around for awhile. I don't want to wear my raincoat in the house, so I take it off. Don't make a big deal about it, but I am wondering what my cousin will think, as she may not have even known I have a CCW. Three or four minutes pass with me literally standing there in full view of everyone and no one noticeably looks at it or comments. I figure she might have noticed earlier and wasn't surprised. Maybe her dad carries and just doesn't talk about it(I work with him).

30 minutes pass, almost all of which involves standing around walking to and fro etc. No sitting behind a table or anything and she notices the firearm, stares at it for about 10 seconds looks at me oddly and states "Is that a gun. Why are you carrying a gun?" My mom looks down at it and looks at it with a surprised look on her face, followed by my sister. I honestly don't think any of them had noticed it during the last half hour.

The point of this story:
Most people just don't notice if you don't rest your hand on it and such.
 
Most people just don't notice if you don't rest your hand on it
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If there were open carry in SC, that would be called "brandishing". Even touching your gun can be construed to be "use of deadly force".
 
I see police officers do this regularly and have never felt threatened by it. I will have to ask the Sheriff what he thinks about that next time I see him.

The other shoe? I am guessing you mean what I replied.

I simply stated I did not want to take it back to my house, which is just down the street. Everyone seemed to accept that answer and it wasn't brought up again.
 
I have lived in a relatively small town in northern AZ for the last 20 years and generally, when you were open carrying nobody gave it a second glance, even when you went into the banks. That all changed a few years ago, however, when a large influx of Californians started. The usual reaction is "Why are you carrying a gun?", invariably followed by: "Well, we're going to change that."
 
I have lived in a relatively small town in northern AZ for the last 20 years and generally, when you were open carrying nobody gave it a second glance, even when you went into the banks. That all changed a few years ago, however, when a large influx of Californians started. The usual reaction is "Why are you carrying a gun?", invariably followed by: "Well, we're going to change that."
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Are you in or around Show Low? I know they've had problems the last several years from Californians trying to "change things" and "clean up the town".

I used to spend a lot of time in Show Low, but I really have little use for it now. Personal reasons that I won't go into.

Here I usually put on a vest as a cover when I go into a bank. A vest is pretty common here, since I'm not far from Tombstone. Other than that, I OC most of the time and nobody cares.
 
Even touching your gun can be construed to be "use of deadly force".
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I believe in all states you can use your elbow area to rest on the gun and jam it "into" the holster to block grabbing while in people-dense areas. There's nothing threatening about that.

Another variation: you're doing crossdraw, you have your hands resting thumbs behind belt buckle and the back of your forearm against the gun's butt. Yet again, a "grab block" without being threatening.
 
In PA, it is legal to open carry and you do not need a permit for that except in the City of Philadelphia. You do need a permit for concealed carry throughout the State. Since open carry is legal, there is none of this nonsense here about "brandishing". If you have a gun on your belt, so what? If someone sees it, so what? If you take off your raincoat, so what? It's all legal in PA. Our State Constitution protects our right to self defense.
 
brandishing is not the same as having it visible. Open carry is also legal in Ohio. Brandishing means you did something to indicate you were about to draw your pistol or actually did draw it. Basically using the pistol to intimidate.
 
Brandishing=showing it. Not indicating you are going to draw anything. What does that mean anyway? How do you indicate you are going to draw? Do you yell it out? Is there some kind of dance involved?

"If there were open carry in SC, that would be called "brandishing". Even touching your gun can be construed to be "use of deadly force". ".

That is some funny stuff, I have to make sure that I never go to SC.
What about if you think that you maybe kind of, but not really going to touch it. Can you get the death penalty for that?
 
So, you are saying Ohio and PA are Brandish states instead of OC states?


bran·dish (brndsh)
tr.v. bran·dished, bran·dish·ing, bran·dish·es
1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
2. To display ostentatiously. See Synonyms at flourish.

Brandish is simply not the same as have visible.
 
What is a "Brandish" state?

You can either open carry of CCW or both depending on the laws of your state. I'm not sure what a "Brandish" state is.
Or no carry of anykind state...
 
I've had CCW in 3 states (NV-WA-OR) and if someone called the police because they saw your gun, you got charged with brandishing. In WA you can go directly to jail. In Oregon it's up to the cop to decide weather or not you meant to do it. NV there was no black or white it was gray and what the cops decided at the time is what happens..
 
but in Ohio and PA it is legal to open carry. I can, and have, walked down the street in my city, right past the sheriffs department, with a gun on my hip and it is totally legal.
 
What is a "Brandish" state?
You can either open carry of CCW or both depending on the laws of your state.
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I guess it would be like Wisconsin, where open carry is legal and constitutionally protected, but they routinely arrest anyway.
 
Laws and Social Norms are different.

If you think there has to be a law broken in order for you to get arrested, jailed, held, charged and even prosecuted, think again and check these links:

If you thing obeying every law protects you from arbitrary fiat, think again and in most cases, you have no recourse, no recourse at all. It is often left entirely up to the discretion of some minor official you have no influence over at all.

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php?t=48435

Can legal open carry be prosecuted as disorderly conduct?
August 2008 Brad Krause was arrested at gunpoint in West Allis, Wisconsin while planting trees in his yard. There apparantly was not even a complaint, but a neighbor who called police (according to his testimony in court) to inquire if carrying a gun in a holster was legal. No complaint. Just a question.

The next court hearing in his prosecution (yes, the police are continuing, even though open carry is specificaly allowed in Wisconsin law (by the same law that outlaws concealed carry) is Feb 17.

Can you spell "abuse of police power"? Louisiana and New Orleans police confiscated means of self defense during Katrina's reign. A Pennsylvania sheriff voided a woman's concealed carry permit because she carried openly (warm weather clothing see thread
http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6767 ) and apparantly a Palmer, Alaska policeman issued a ticket for a man carrying openly inside the city limits. (post #28 in this thread http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=46152)
Mistakes happen. Official perpetuation of those mistakes constitutes something. Harrassment? Not for me to say.

As the post on http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum...TOPIC_ID=10380 said, "Gun Rights? Any Rights? What Rights?" in asking if government can get away with (even temporarily, and with or without apologies later) infringe the right to carry, the right to publish, the right to worship. Well, that last one hasn't been actively infringed lately, but the principle is the same. A constitutionally guaranteed civil right is a civil right. I should not have to be expecting to be arrested or ticketed or even asked to leave a public place when I exercise it.

See also

http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/wi-case-update.htm

http://www.jpfo.org/alerts02/alert20081212b.htm

http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/wi-case-update.htm

I wonder if Wisconsin and Pennsylvania are the only places where this sort of nonsense is happening.


If the links above don't work, paste these addresses into your web browser

concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6767
forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php?t=46152
concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10380
concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10380
jpfo.org/articles-assd/wi-case-update.htm
jpfo.org/alerts02/alert20081212b.htm
jpfo.org/articles-assd/wi-case-update.htm


Lost Sheep
 
I wonder if Wisconsin and Pennsylvania are the only places where this sort of nonsense is happening.
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No, it happens in Michigan also, where most of the OCers live in rural areas, and generally carry for the same reasons ranchhands carry. But, since it is mostly rural areas, when somebody is found carrying openly in a crowded county like Wayne, Oakland, or Macomb, the police usually overreact just like they do in other states. Michigan has always been a OC state, but some people are just now finding that out. Unfortunately, some police are just now finding it out also, or they are just playing dumb.
 
Are you in or around Show Low? I know they've had problems the last several years from Californians trying to "change things" and "clean up the town".
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No, I'm a little further west in the Verde Valley, but the problems are the same. We have had an infestation of Californians here in recent years and they aren't any more welcome here than in Show Low.

I moved here 20 years ago from Florida, and back there the problem was with all the morons from the Northeast who were "going to change things" and they sure succeeded.
 
No, I'm a little further west in the Verde Valley, but the problems are the same. We have had an infestation of Californians here in recent years and they aren't any more welcome here than in Show Low.

I moved here 20 years ago from Florida, and back there the problem was with all the morons from the Northeast who were "going to change things" and they sure succeeded.
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My dad and I watched a thing on TV some years back where the cali-critters were trying to pass an initiative to "clean up the town".

They wanted to get rid of stacked firewood, old wagon wheels (decorations), and anything "unsightly", and the intiative would cause people who were born and raised in Show Low to abide by the whims of the cali-critters.

And they just about tarred 'n feathered the cali-critters over it. The initiative failed, but they keep trying to change this and change that into what they left in Cali.

My thoughts are if they like kalifornia ideals so much, they really ought to just go home.

Daryl
 
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