Open carry as deterrent
- Thread starter NateKirk
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Open carry makes you a target. If someone wants to take down a convenience store, and you're open carrying, you get shot, or hit over the head and disarmed first.
THERE IS NO DETERRENT VALUE TO OPEN CARRY. NONE!
Most folks, especially law enforcement, will look at you and think you're just trying to look macho.
THERE IS NO DETERRENT VALUE TO OPEN CARRY. NONE!
Most folks, especially law enforcement, will look at you and think you're just trying to look macho.
Yes it can be a deterrent. Once my sister, wife, our kids and myself went to a store in Oklahoma City. When we went in two men were standing outside one holding a gas can. When we came out the had separated. The one holding the gas can asked if we could help with some gas. I told sorry we don't have anything . He walked off towards a gas station. At this time I was covered only because my nephew was scared of people other than LEO with firearms. We kept standing there and the other guy came over and word for word asked the same question. I told him the same as the first. Well he walked off across a busy street and got into a car that just pulled up. He sat in it for a couple of minutes and then got out coming back towards us. My sister says you might want to uncover that . So seeing how there were a few cars between us I uncovered. Well he walking around us and looked at my hip. Next thing I heard is oh $@#%!!! and he ran away. Not walk but ran as fast as he could. I mentioned it to a LEO and he told me that my gun kept me from being robbed or worse.
walks with gun
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There might be times were open carry MIGHT fend off some punks, but I'd rather keep mine covered, I think it can and does make you the first target. Being aware of your surroundings and not looking like a victim is always a good bet, you can always put your hand on or near your gun, while still keeping it covered, makes bad guy's nervous.
There's no question that it can definitely act as a deterrent. Many criminals (though clearly not all) will avoid targets if there is any hint that they might be able to resist effectively or pose a danger.
It's a mistake to assume that it's a total solution in that regard, however. Some criminals are willing to brave armed resistance for a prize that they consider valuable--we know this is true because gun stores and banks with armed security guards are sometimes robbed. And, of course, it's important to remember that not all criminals are rational.
In the rare situations where an obviously armed victim doesn't deter a criminal, the ability of the criminal to see the gun may put the victim at more of a disadvantage than he/she would be otherwise, but that's another discussion.
I believe that it is at its most effective, as a deterrent, when multiple people in relatively close proximity are open carrying.
It's a mistake to assume that it's a total solution in that regard, however. Some criminals are willing to brave armed resistance for a prize that they consider valuable--we know this is true because gun stores and banks with armed security guards are sometimes robbed. And, of course, it's important to remember that not all criminals are rational.
In the rare situations where an obviously armed victim doesn't deter a criminal, the ability of the criminal to see the gun may put the victim at more of a disadvantage than he/she would be otherwise, but that's another discussion.
I believe that it is at its most effective, as a deterrent, when multiple people in relatively close proximity are open carrying.
How successfully does it prevent attacks on armed security guards and peace officers?
How well do locks stop theft? (Of course, the old saying is that locks keep honest people honest.
)I rather suspect some geographical and situational context is required in order to give the overly broad question specific relevance.
When I "open carried" while wearing my uniform service weapon on a daily basis I paid a lot of constant extra attention to any possibility of being disarmed, and retention of the weapon. After all, I was bringing an openly exposed weapon to every situation where I found myself, whether or not there were already others present.
Unless I were in some situation where it wasn't going to be out of the ordinary or uncommon to see an openly carried handgun (some rural activity where other armed citizens were also present, hunting, hiking, etc), there's no way I have any further interest in openly carrying a handgun for everyone to see. Maybe not even then. I don't want that sort of attention anymore.
This
I can see where in some areas that it could be perceived as someone just trying to be macho. But as the practice becomes more common, it becomes more accepted. That is exactly what I see happening here.
It can work against us as well. If someone chooses to legally OC I hope they are smart enough to realize they represent all of us and will always act responsibly.
There's no such thing as deterrence; that's why police officers dress to blend in with society instead of wearing distinctive, authoritarian uniforms, or driving distinctively painted cars with flashy lights or wearing bright shiny badges on their chests.
It's also why a Polled Hereford cow is just as unlikely to be attacked by a mountain lion or coyote as a Texas Longhorn and why a big cat or even a little Chihuahua will never lift it's lip and snarl at you before biting.
In the final analysis...
- Driving a flashy car attracting carjackers
- Having an expensive home attract burglars
- Wearing fancy Nike's can attract thugs
- Flashing cash can attract pickpockets and muggers
- Carrying openly may attract someone who wants to take it
... but of all those, the only one that may also prevent being targeted is carrying openly.
It's also why a Polled Hereford cow is just as unlikely to be attacked by a mountain lion or coyote as a Texas Longhorn and why a big cat or even a little Chihuahua will never lift it's lip and snarl at you before biting.
In the final analysis...
- Driving a flashy car attracting carjackers
- Having an expensive home attract burglars
- Wearing fancy Nike's can attract thugs
- Flashing cash can attract pickpockets and muggers
- Carrying openly may attract someone who wants to take it
... but of all those, the only one that may also prevent being targeted is carrying openly.
A pause for the COZ
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I would guess, In a situation were the predators are observing the flock of sheeple.
Looking for a target, They would move on from the target who looks prepared and a danger to them.
They are after all looking for the easy target.
On the flip side. If you run into the determined predator, who is willing to risk a harder target for the pay off.
Your most likely dead before the encounter really begins. They will have factored you in. They get to choose when to start.
So maybe risk assessment would be in order. In situations where you belive thug deterrence is the main goal. Open Cary
In instances were tactical advantage is more important. Political functions, Movie theaters, Including scaring the Soccer Mom's at Denny's.
Maybe CC is the best option.
Its all about the right tool for the job.
In my own personal opinion though. I look at open carry as a way to compensate for bad situational awareness.
Your letting your gun do the work instead of you.
Looking for a target, They would move on from the target who looks prepared and a danger to them.
They are after all looking for the easy target.
On the flip side. If you run into the determined predator, who is willing to risk a harder target for the pay off.
Your most likely dead before the encounter really begins. They will have factored you in. They get to choose when to start.
So maybe risk assessment would be in order. In situations where you belive thug deterrence is the main goal. Open Cary
In instances were tactical advantage is more important. Political functions, Movie theaters, Including scaring the Soccer Mom's at Denny's.
Maybe CC is the best option.
Its all about the right tool for the job.
In my own personal opinion though. I look at open carry as a way to compensate for bad situational awareness.
Your letting your gun do the work instead of you.
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Frank Ettin
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Probably no one knows, and it's probably impossible to conclude categorically one way or another. Sometimes, under some circumstances, it could be an advantage. Sometimes, under some circumstances, it could be a liability. We can all think of hypothetical situations in which open carry is one or the other; but no hypothetical is necessarily predictive of what will happen in real life.
Bottom line is that since there's no way of predicting exactly what will be happening to you today, when you leave your house and go about your business, there's no way of knowing whether carrying your gun openly today will be a good idea or a bad idea. So trying to decide whether to openly carry your gun on the basis of some supposed deterrence effect seems to be pretty much a waste of time.
There simply doesn't seem to be any really data, in a statistically meaningful sample, to allow us to draw meaningful conclusions.
Bottom line is that since there's no way of predicting exactly what will be happening to you today, when you leave your house and go about your business, there's no way of knowing whether carrying your gun openly today will be a good idea or a bad idea. So trying to decide whether to openly carry your gun on the basis of some supposed deterrence effect seems to be pretty much a waste of time.
There simply doesn't seem to be any really data, in a statistically meaningful sample, to allow us to draw meaningful conclusions.
Professional bodyguards, detectives, secret service agents, etc all conceal. Gotta be a good reason for that, IMHO.
I open carried for 22 years in uniform. Haven't open carried since I retired.
I switched from a belt holster to a shoulder rig and still carry a duty type weapon.
I open carried for 22 years in uniform. Haven't open carried since I retired.
I switched from a belt holster to a shoulder rig and still carry a duty type weapon.
There have been a lot of good answers so I'll give you the actual reason and situation for why I'm asking.
I work in Landscaping in the suburbs around Detroit, and have frequent dealings with white trash and crazies, be they my actual customers or their neighbors. Many times these people will get loud, angry, and occasionally violent, when upset or they decide they have been wronged (leafs blown on my lawn, grass clippings on my side of the fence, the mower is too loud, you got the mower on my lawn, etc, etc. You'd be surprised how territorial people are.) Anyway, one in particular is especially unreasonable and violent and I can just imagine the scene where I'm mowing the lawn and they go back inside, grab their shotgun and blow my head off.
I don't really want to open carry, but I wont be able to get my CPL until August. I'm just wondering if you think in this situation wearing a gun would deter all the verbal abuse and occasional violence that I have to deal with. My dad suggested a restraining order against some of the more violent ones, and police obviously, but if they want to blow my head off the cops aren't going to be there. Advice? Thanks guys
Also I work as a one man crew for my boss, so I'm my only witness and immediate support.
In a situation like that I wouldn't open carry for two reasons.
1. It might be seen as escalating the situation.
2. There's absolutely no reason to openly introduce a firearm into that kind of interaction.
In your shoes, I'd be far more interested in learning about conflict resolution and effective communication. You aren't dealing with criminals or attackers, you're dealing with ordinary citizens who just happen to be a little less cordial than most.
Frankly, the situation isn't one that calls for resolution with a firearm. It's something that needs to be dealt with via personal interaction skills. You could probably turn some of those problem folks into customers if you approach it with the right attitude.
Now that the context is known, it's safe to say that the topic is not appropriate for the T&T forum.
1. It might be seen as escalating the situation.
2. There's absolutely no reason to openly introduce a firearm into that kind of interaction.
In your shoes, I'd be far more interested in learning about conflict resolution and effective communication. You aren't dealing with criminals or attackers, you're dealing with ordinary citizens who just happen to be a little less cordial than most.
Frankly, the situation isn't one that calls for resolution with a firearm. It's something that needs to be dealt with via personal interaction skills. You could probably turn some of those problem folks into customers if you approach it with the right attitude.
Now that the context is known, it's safe to say that the topic is not appropriate for the T&T forum.
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