Only police should have guns???

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I am the only person on this street professional enough to carry a for-tey ... Bang bang bang bang!

Wow that is a really bad situation. Many police do not get much range time yet they are expected to handle many situations. Crowded street is a tough one. Does demonstrate though that police are not necessarily safer at carry than civilians.
 
Well, my prediction was wrong, the LEO's did not fire 75 to 100 rounds and hit their target six times. They fired sixteen rounds and hit their target three times plus the bystanders. "16" rounds at "8" feet and only "3" hits on target. They need some training.
 
They opened their eyes and the assailant had been shot three times and only nine bystanders had been wounded. "Spray n pray" does work!
 
Just a snip from the outraged folks over at the Brady Bunch.....

Statement from Brady Campaign President Dan Gross in response to shooting outside the Empire State Building in New York City:
“On behalf of the Brady Campaign, I extend our deepest sympathies to the families of the victims and survivors of the mass shooting outside the Empire State Building....
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More of course at their website if you like.....:eek:


The Brady Bunch was quick to try to gain a little publicity over "another mass shooting.". Now that its official that NYPD were actually the ones behind the shooting, I'm curious what their spin will be now. Or, will they just continue to run with the "mass shooting" and claim that the police had to shoot bystanders in order to prevent a much larger mass shooting that surely the gunman was about to unleash.
 
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Krezyhorse posted:

Quote:
Statement from Brady Campaign President Dan Gross in response to shooting outside the Empire State Building in New York City:
“On behalf of the Brady Campaign, I extend our deepest sympathies to the families of the victims and survivors of the mass shooting outside the Empire State Building....
Click to expand...

The gunman shot one person, the mass shooters were the cops!
 
In general most police officers are not shooters, they only shoot a gun when required to do so for qualification (one or two times a year) or in the line of duty.

The reason for their deficiency in gun handling/shooting skills is the fault of those in the higher up positions not requiring more training of the police officers with their duty weapons.

In this case Bloomberg should be sued by every innocent bystander that was shot. After all it's his responsiblity to mandate training and see that the police department has the funds for training.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
 
In partial defense of the officers, of the 9 injured persons, 6 were injured by bullet fragments that ricocheted.

The reason for their deficiency in gun handling/shooting skills is the fault of those in the higher up positions not requiring more training of the police officers with their duty weapons.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, especially in judgmental shooting and shooting in simulated violent confrontations. I've been conducting this type of training for law enforcement agencies all over the country for the last 18 years, and can't even begin to count the number of times I've been told, "We've never done that type of training, so we don't see a need to spend money on it." :rolleyes:

Perhaps some in the NYPD hierarchy will now see the need for more of this type of training.:cool:

But I wouldn't bet on it! :mad:
 
"In partial defense of the officers, of the 9 injured persons, 6 were injured by bullet fragments that ricocheted."

I get what you are saying, but they still unintentionally shot 3 people.

"Absolutely, especially in judgmental shooting and shooting in simulated violent confrontations. I've been conducting this type of training for law enforcement agencies all over the country for the last 18 years, and can't even begin to count the number of times I've been told, "We've never done that type of training, so we don't see a need to spend money on it.""

Its sad to see this type of attitude from the people that are most likely to be involved in it.
 
I did not post this....

to denigrate the LEOs, although they are obviously not trained well enough given what happened. But it is ironic that this occurred where the biggest mouthpiece of the "Only police should have guns because they are trained" movement is in charge.
 
Quote:
The reason for their deficiency in gun handling/shooting skills is the fault of those in the higher up positions not requiring more training of the police officers with their duty weapons.
Click to expand...

Maybe the lack of training is due to the fact that the 'higher ups' still don't believe this kind of thing can happen in their city/state cause, well...guns just aren't allowed in their city by most citizens due to the strict gun laws the 'higher ups' made.:rolleyes:
Too, Google the statistics of people being shot yearly in New York City and it's very clear Bloombergs anti-gun campaign does not and will not work.
The 'city' of NY ranks way ahead of most states in the US when it comes to people being shot and violent crimes. But you will never hear the likes of Bloomberg admit their anti-gun crap has proven not to work cause the majority of his political career has been based on his anti-gun policies.
 
Opine

Blame Bloomberg and the 14 lb. DAO trigger. I don't think I could hit beans either. A 7 or even 9 lb. trigger may be mastered with dry firing and range time, but anything over that makes the pistol unsafe, obviously, for a service arm. Sue him, sue him good!
 
As prepared as New York seems to be at preventing disruption of the peace in the streets they do seem to be somewhat unprepared for dealing with it in this particular aspect. That said, this isn't the first time, and this isn't the only city, that we've read about collateral damage from LEO shooting skills under pressure. A crowded city street is the last place I'd want to be tested on these skills. I hear some shooting break out on a city street situation and I'm getting real small and real low to the ground real quick.

Remember, shooting under pressure is only one of several skill they need to do their job, day-to-day. In fact it is rarely needed.

Also, it is only natural that the departments have priorities. Those priorities are driven by economics and the attitudes of leadership and management. We may rank training priorities differently than the Mayor and Chief.

The lesson I take from these stories is that a professional is not necessarily the best you can find at one part of their job, but they are on the scene and it is their charter. 'Glad it's not me.
 
12-14 lb trigger, low range time and hit ratio...

Somewhere on TFL there was an article about NYPDs triggers, low range time and hit ratio. I can't imagine trying to pull that in a impulse, excited state and hit a (the appropriate) man sized target.

So does this actually prove anything about that combination?
 
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