One Shot Does Not a pattern Make, but...(Webley)

W

Wildalaska

Moderator
I tossed a Fiocchi .455 265 round through a Shooting Chrony on Sunday and got a savage 555 fps :)

Gun used was a 1916 Mark VI (an interesting one because it has no out of service marks)...its loose so maybe I'll toss one out of my 1921 Enfiield Mark VI which is tighter (but less accurate than the 1916).

I assume the lightness is due to the folks possibly firing them in early Mark Is

WildmyinfofortodayAlaska TM
 
For whatever reason, the British apparently never thought that their revolver cartridges needed much velocity.

IIRC .455 had a nominal velocity of between 600 and 700 fps throughout its life.

The .380-200, when it was adopted, kept the same sedate velocity range.

The .450 Adams and .476 Enfield revolver cartridges? You guessed it...

I guess they didn't want their elbows to be taxed with recoil?
 
A .45 cal bullet at 550 fps?

You can see it in-flight, can't you?

You can see a BB at 600+ fps under the right conditions... I'd think that thing would look like you threw a rock at someone!:)
 
Velocity

That "throw a rock" idea may well have been the concept.
Y'know...a big slow moving bullet that kinda thuds into the
target and dumps all its energy there.
A 200 grain .45 ACP lswc at 750 fps is not terribly different.
Pete
 
I knew that weren't speed demons, but that just seems very slow. I would expect somewhere in the mid 700s. My Hogdon doesn't have any info on the .455 so that's just a guess.

Like most European military, the British pretty much reserved the handgun to officers. They were probably used more often to keep the troops in line than against enemy soldiers.
When they were used against the "enemy" they were more likely used against an (insert derogatory English term for non-European here) than against 1st world soldiers. So the odds are that these handguns were used at distances measured in feet rather than yards.
By the time of the Boer War and later, inertia probably kept the Brits from upgrading.
 
Incredibly, even after WWII, when the BHP was made the official service pistol, old officers complained that it would never have the "killing power" of the .455. Of coures, we had the same thing with the .45 ACP vs the 9mm, but even so the .45 ACP had more punch than the .455 revolver round.

As to the strength of the Mk VI, the gun is larger than the previous marks but the basic cylinder and frame are not that much stronger. Mk VI revolvers converted to fire the .45 ACP have blown cylinders when firing the latter round, and the British War Office warned against firing the .455 Webley Auto Pistol cartridge in any of the .455 revolver marks.

Jim
 
You can see it in-flight, can't you?
Click to expand...

My local outdoor pistol range is set up so that in the late afternoon, the bullet flies from shade to sunshine and back to shade. I've seen .38s flash through the sunshine quite a few times, those were probably going 700-800 fps.
 
At one of the local outdoor ranges here in PA, the sun's behind you in the afternoon. I've often seen light reflecting off semi-jacketed pistol bullets when shooting there. They look exactly like tracers and you can usually follow them all the way to the 100 yard targets.
And yes, the .455 round is S-L-O-W. Apparently, the Brits were satisfied with a punkin roller for a pistol round.
 
When they were used against the "enemy" they were more likely used against an (insert derogatory English term for non-European here) than against 1st world soldiers. So the odds are that these handguns were used at distances measured in feet rather than yards.
By the time of the Boer War and later, inertia probably kept the Brits from upgrading.
Click to expand...

Actually, WWI trench memoirs (of which I have a huge collection) all speak fondly of the Webley, especially its killing power at close, trench hand to hand distances.

I daresay old Wobbly has been responsible for more kills over its lifespan than nay other service pistol...(at least in terms of combatants), especially in light of the British Officers tendency to lead from the front.

WildremembertheSAAwonthewestbutthewebleywontheworldAlaska TM
 
"I daresay old Wobbly has been responsible for more kills over its lifespan than nay other service pistol..."

Kind of hard to measure, especially in light of the fact that the 1911 was issued FAR more freely to US troops, not just officers.
 
Thats about how hard a supped up airsoft gun shoots... it would sting alot, but honestly 555 fps? that isn't fast at all. I'd bet plenty of guys shot with that walked away with a nice bruise.
 
I'd bet plenty of guys shot with that walked away with a nice bruise.
Click to expand...

Im looking for a volunteer to try that theory.:D

The actual velocity, as Mr. Irwin indicates, was between 700-800, the figure that sticks in my head is 750. Contrast the .45 Colt with 100 fps more in modern loading. Considering the number of antique firearms still in use, Fiocchi is being cautious.



WildnowwheredidiputmypithhelmetAlaska TM
 
Uhm... I think I indicated that most British ammo appears to have been loaded for velocities between 600 and 700 fps.

And 555 fps is NOTHING to sneeze at when the bullet weighs 265 grains.

An airsoft pellet weighs what, maybe 1 or 2 grains at the most? And is plastic.
 
Compare

Just for comparison:
a 265 grain bullet at 555 fps = 181 ft.lbs ME. At 600 = 211. 650 = 248. 700 = 288.

32 ACP factory load (60 grs) = 125 ft.lbs/ 71 grain = 129
32 Magnum factory 85 grain JHP = 230 ft.lbs ME
380 Auto factory 90 gr JHP = 200 ft.lbs. ME
38 Spl. 148 grain WC factory = 132 ft.lbs
38 Spl. 158 grain factory JHP = 200 ft. lbs.
A .38 Spl.+P 135 grain short barrel load fired from a two inch snub nose has about 220 ft.lbs ME.
The British .380/200 load - a 200 grain bullet at about 700 fps (that's what I get from mine) is at about 217 ft.lbs ME. At 650 fps = 187 ft.lbs

Pete
 
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A low velocity bullet of that weight is still going to go inside somebody and put .455 holes in some organ that the owner deems useful. And if that guy doesn't fall down right away, a Webley is heavy enough to make a very useful club.
 
The "killing power" of the .38/200 in British service is a bit questionable since the British never used it in combat. They justified the adoption of the smaller and lighter revolver by claiming that with the 200 grain lead "man killer" bullet it was the equal of the .455, but when war came, they switched to a 178 grain FMJ bullet to comply with the Hague Convention.

Jim
 
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