Pond James Pond
New member
I went to the range today and over the course of 2.5 hours, I zeroed my AR Leupold at 50m, shot both my AR and my .308 bolt at 100m and tried my hand for the first time at 300m, again with both.
I am a quite pleased with the results, but I have a few questions.
The gear and the conditions:
First about the guns and the ammo. The AR is a new M400 Sig and today I put bullets 101 to 160 down the barrel. It is also the first time I've shot it with a scope.
The .308 is known to me, but this was the first time I had shot the Finnish milsurp I was feeding it today. The .223 sped the 55gr BT bullet along at about 2980fps, whereas the .308 managed 2680fps. I don't know the bullet weight, but I am guessing 155-167gr based on the velocity and recoil.
Weather was dry, clear, the air was still and it was not too cold.
50m:
The AR zeroed quite easily, and in the end, seated and resting the handguard on a firm surface, I shot a 1" group. Not brilliant, but even at 50m and 4x I was having difficulty with detail recognition on the target which was a 10 ring target with zones 7-10 all black.
100m:
At 100m, I shot the .308 first, prone, with a bipod. I fired 8 shots, and they all went up (about 8") and left (about 1-2") when aiming at the centre. They grouped OK, but nothing more. The group was about 2" squared, with 2 shots touching, another pair close nearby and another cluster of 3. 1 was nowhere near. So in all with the same POA, I seemingly had 3 little clusters all together.
My shooting didn't feel bad: I didn't feel like I was flinching and the trigger break came smoothly.
With the AR, I assumed a kneeling on one knee position, and fired relatively fast. As soon as my sights were back on I squeezed. Frankly I was having a bit of fun as I was confident of the AR's accuracy so I was not expecting a tight group and I didn't get one!! The strikes were pretty much spread over the whole target, but with a heavier concentration around the 10-9 rings, so not great, but was not being as precise either.
300m:
It is the 300m that bothers me.
These were shot prone for both guns. The .308 was still a bit high, but only by an inch or two, and the 12 shot group was almost all in the 8-9-10 rings, but showed more horizontal spread (about 10") than vertical (about 6"). I was on max magnification at 12x and I was aiming dead centre. As above, I thought my shooting felt OK, and it was my first time.
Then came the Sig. They gave me a rifle clamp to help me as only prone is allowed at 300m and I had no bipod for the Sig. Only one shot on the paper. All the others looked as though they'd struck the ply board the paper was on. They were fairly widely spread, but all there, as far as I could tell
Needless to say, small detail on the target was negligible with the 4x, but I knew if my cross-hairs were on centre and between the prone position and the rest, a good cheek-weld and my other hand supporting the stock, I did not feel remotely unsteady.
With a .223 at almost 3000fps and a 50m zero I was expecting the hits to all be reaching their second zero point, or on the target at least, but all hits must have been about 12" below the 10-ring POA and horizontally spread a good 8". Disappointed.
AR:
So, based on those descriptions, what could it be?
My rifle is somehow defective?
The scope is badly set up?
My shooting is crap?
All is normal for this type of gun?
I don't expect it to be #4, and I sort of hope it is #3 as it's the easiest to address and doesn't mean I've bought a lemon!
.308:
Does this sound like milsurp accuracy or is it particularly bad?
Pictures to follow when possible
I am a quite pleased with the results, but I have a few questions.
The gear and the conditions:
First about the guns and the ammo. The AR is a new M400 Sig and today I put bullets 101 to 160 down the barrel. It is also the first time I've shot it with a scope.
The .308 is known to me, but this was the first time I had shot the Finnish milsurp I was feeding it today. The .223 sped the 55gr BT bullet along at about 2980fps, whereas the .308 managed 2680fps. I don't know the bullet weight, but I am guessing 155-167gr based on the velocity and recoil.
Weather was dry, clear, the air was still and it was not too cold.
50m:
The AR zeroed quite easily, and in the end, seated and resting the handguard on a firm surface, I shot a 1" group. Not brilliant, but even at 50m and 4x I was having difficulty with detail recognition on the target which was a 10 ring target with zones 7-10 all black.
100m:
At 100m, I shot the .308 first, prone, with a bipod. I fired 8 shots, and they all went up (about 8") and left (about 1-2") when aiming at the centre. They grouped OK, but nothing more. The group was about 2" squared, with 2 shots touching, another pair close nearby and another cluster of 3. 1 was nowhere near. So in all with the same POA, I seemingly had 3 little clusters all together.
My shooting didn't feel bad: I didn't feel like I was flinching and the trigger break came smoothly.
With the AR, I assumed a kneeling on one knee position, and fired relatively fast. As soon as my sights were back on I squeezed. Frankly I was having a bit of fun as I was confident of the AR's accuracy so I was not expecting a tight group and I didn't get one!! The strikes were pretty much spread over the whole target, but with a heavier concentration around the 10-9 rings, so not great, but was not being as precise either.
300m:
It is the 300m that bothers me.
These were shot prone for both guns. The .308 was still a bit high, but only by an inch or two, and the 12 shot group was almost all in the 8-9-10 rings, but showed more horizontal spread (about 10") than vertical (about 6"). I was on max magnification at 12x and I was aiming dead centre. As above, I thought my shooting felt OK, and it was my first time.
Then came the Sig. They gave me a rifle clamp to help me as only prone is allowed at 300m and I had no bipod for the Sig. Only one shot on the paper. All the others looked as though they'd struck the ply board the paper was on. They were fairly widely spread, but all there, as far as I could tell
Needless to say, small detail on the target was negligible with the 4x, but I knew if my cross-hairs were on centre and between the prone position and the rest, a good cheek-weld and my other hand supporting the stock, I did not feel remotely unsteady.
With a .223 at almost 3000fps and a 50m zero I was expecting the hits to all be reaching their second zero point, or on the target at least, but all hits must have been about 12" below the 10-ring POA and horizontally spread a good 8". Disappointed.
AR:
So, based on those descriptions, what could it be?
My rifle is somehow defective?
The scope is badly set up?
My shooting is crap?
All is normal for this type of gun?
I don't expect it to be #4, and I sort of hope it is #3 as it's the easiest to address and doesn't mean I've bought a lemon!
.308:
Does this sound like milsurp accuracy or is it particularly bad?
Pictures to follow when possible