One percent of retailers sell 40 percent of guns used in California crime

I would imagine it'd be a good idea to shut those places down. In fact, why is any gun store allowed to continue operating if it's found to sell any firearm to anyone that fails a background check?
 
Interesting

I don't believe it. Sorry...It is pretty hard to swallow, since the Bad Guys don't buy their guns they steal them. Or buy them from someone who stole them.

In CA the Laws have been very strict for 40 years, not just the last decade.

I would like to know more, I think I will try and follow it up. Thanks for the information.

Harley
 
Or perhaps buy them from gun stores that they know won't run background checks on them or will fudge the results? It's like a bunch of high schoolers always going to the liquor store that they know doesn't check ID. Doesn't really seem that surprising, to be honest.

Since, as you said, bad guys tend to steal their weapons maybe they're stealing from the same group of customers that shop at these particular stores. In which case they're either very clever bad guys or they're getting inside info about which customers will be easy to steal from.

I've often wondered about this...if bad guys are stealing most of their guns, what's being done to stop them from doing so?
 
Redworm, I doubt that very many stores would "fudge" the results of a background check. The law is written to erase all record of those who pass the background check but to retain the info on those who fail. Thus, any vendor who doctors the results in order to make a sale would eventually be found out and lose a whole lot more than he made off that one gun.
The article says that the shops have a larger number of refusals than most. What this tells me is that they have a very large clientele and that many of them cannot pass the check. What it does not say is that the shops knowingly sell guns to people who cannot pass the check-- it only intimates that, a common tactic of the anti-gun press.
As an example: J&G guns, down in Arizona sells a lot of guns. They also get a lot of denials on NCIS checks. The law of averages dictates that many of the guns they sell legally will be stolen or lost and then used to commit a crime. Some will even be used illegally by the legal owner too. soes this mean that J&G is a renegade business? Not hardly. It just means they sell a lot of guns.
Here in Portland we used to have a used car dealer that had a lot with very poor lighting. Eventually, police found that certain crooks were going down to his lot at night, stealing a car for some scheme and then returning it before daylight. Should he be run out of town for furnishing getaway cars? Maybe in Kalifornia. As it turned out, he went broke for other reasons and the new owner put up a strip-mall.
 
I don't believe the shops should be held responsible if they're not doing anything wrong but I imagine there are a few crooked gun shop owners among those mentioned in the article. There isn't a profession on earth that doesn't have a few bad apples, it just happens that this particular one leads to some of the more tragic consequences.
 
I'm with Harley. Considering who performed the "study", I would like to know more about how it was done.

Tim
 
I just don't see how it could be done. When a dealer takes a gun into his possession, he has to log it into his bound book. Whatever happens to that gun has to be logged in also. If he sells it to someone who has failed NCIS, that sale will be found out when the records are cross-checked (and they are cross-checked.) If the gun is stolen from his store, he has to log it and report it. If he takes it out of the showcase and transfers it to his personal possession, he has to log it.
The only way to get around any of this is to fail to log the gun in when he gets it and that would leave him open ot all sorts of sting operations by the ATF. Maybe that's what has happened here, but the article failes to mention it
 
Not ALL BGs steal their weapons, contrary to popular belief. When I was in New Orleans, the question came about how all the gangs in the Caliope and ST. Thomas projects were able to get SKSs and AKs. Apparently, a couple shops (forgot the names) in Luisianna sell them all the time. The gangs would send people to buy weapons (usually those with clean records) and bring them back to the hood. They were normally stashed under the project buildings where the locks had been changed by the gangs. Since there were hundreds of locks, the maintenance folks (numbering 2-3) couldn't keep up with finding all the changed locks.
Since you are allowed to carry any weapon in your car, the weapons were easily moved throughout the city.
 
We have a shop here in Milwaukee that consistently ranks #1 nationwide for "crime guns."

They're meticulous about record-keeping, and the BATF is in there often looking at the records.

Their problem is that they're the closest store to the bad parts of town.
 
Pawn shops don't do background checks.

they release to the person who brought it in, in the first place.
This is covered by the Law Enforcement agency where the Pawn Shop is located.

I believe the new law requiring a 'dros' and waiting 10 days is now in effect. So when the person wants to borrow money on the gun they
have to pay a 'dros' fee to get it out. So they pay it up front (not getting total amount requested) when they borrow the money. Say they want $100.00. They have a penalty fee for the 'dros' then when they pick it up, they pay the vig on the back side.

Dros is $25 in CA. DROS= Dealer Report Of Sale.

Quite a deal the Gov has going? The mob dosen't charge that much for $100.00, it would be $25.00 up front, then when you pick up the gun, it is about $25.00 for the finance charge.

Breaks down to around 50%, they get $75.00 when they leave, and have to bring back $100.00 to get it out. Very few Pawn Shops are loaning on guns anymore, wonder why?

Harley
 
There was a similar case a while ago in California. I remember that they linked over 100 murders or some outrageous number to like one or two "legal" gun dealers. It makes too easy and too good sounding cases for the antis.
 
Okay... yep, I believe this :rolleyes:

With ATFE breathing down their necks, they "fudge" the records? I don't think so. If they are doing anything illegal, then why hasn't the ATFE pulled their license (and you and I know, they are more then willing to do so)?

And when did gun dealers be expected to become mind readers? A person comes in, picks out a firearm, does the paperwork, it goes through WITH NICS BEING THE PARTY THAT APPROVES IT! and they pay and go on their way.

Then they go to another store, and another. Then they sell to the gang bangers or whomever for either money or drugs.

Even with the one gun a month deal, easy, you set up a couple of people that are hooked on drugs and then blackmail them to buy one gun a month for the gang. As long as they do this, then they can either live, get drugs, or whatever. Instead of having one person being blackmailed to buy the gang five guns at one time (which is sent to the ATFE, once again making this article BS) but now you just have five single people doing the same thing but only buying one gun apiece (and now, no form going to ATFE to set off a flag).

Criminal leaders are not stupid, or else they wouldn't be leaders. Many to most of them are very intelligent and use others to do the dirty work for them. They know the laws as well as we, but as we try to put up with them and abide with them, they are learning how to get around them.

I will tell you the truth, I'm amazed that they haven't just started making their own guns. It's not that hard, the machines don't have to be new or expensive, since the original blueprints really haven't changed all that much.

The solution to the problem is what the same people that want to ban guns don't want, and that is to come down hard on the people that abuse the tool of choice.

You use a gun and kill someone while performing a criminal act, you get the same. You steal, you get your hand and/or hands chopped off, you rape someone, you get raped and then put out of your misery.

Cruel, maybe, but instead of trying to blame the instrument, why don't we blame the criminal? Instead of banning the instrument, why not ban the criminal.

Basically, I am sick and tired of being blamed for what others do and to be stripped of my Rights because of the same.

And I'm sick and tired because some idiot out there thinks that if the world would just join hands and ban everything, we will sing cum-ba-ah (or however you spell it, I really don't care) and all will be just peachy keen.

It's the real world people. And it's not a pretty one at that when you add in humanity. I am NOT going to be part of your failed experiment, it hasn't worked since day one, it's not going to work now. Since us bipods have roamed this earth, we have killed and warred with each other, some have even used their own kind as food.

It's not going to change anytime soon, no matter what "reality" you choose to live in.

Wayne
 
Is there anything in particular that should, or even can, be done to keep legally purchased guns out of the hands of criminals? The guns are coming from these shops for one of two reasons (depending on the shop, I don't mean that all of them fall under a single reason): either the shop in question is in a bad area where the clever criminals you brought up are targeting said shop or in some cases an employee or multiple employees of the shop in question are involved in knowingly selling guns. While the first scenario is the most likely I can't imagine that not a single one of the shops somehow falls into the latter category.

Again, there isn't a profession anywhere in the world that is not open to corruption and other types of bad apples.

My question is what can we as gun owners and gun rights supporters (I am still unable to put myself in the former category because Springfield it taking forever and a three day weekend to send me my FOID card :rolleyes: ) do to help solve the problem? I figure that it's our responsibility and duty to do everything we can to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. One reason being that the whole point of the gun ownership that we support is the protection of lives and liberty thus it's only fair for us to put effort into protecting lives and liberty from the very people that would abuse this right.

The other and, in my humble opinion, far more important reason is that to protect these rights from those that would take it away we should do everything possible to take away their reasons and justifications for gun control. Sarah Brady and Senator Feinstein don't want to rule over us with an iron fist, they're not giddy over the possibility of children being assaulted in schools or women being raped...they also have the protection of lives first in their minds but are simply misguided in their efforts because these horrific problems with the abused rights continue to occur. Thus I feel a strong sense of responsibility to support any and every measure to keep these abuses from happening to the point that they do not infringe on the very rights we want to protect.

I hope that made sense...:confused: And I realize I'm preaching to the choir but I guess my point is that my original question remains: what can be done about the problem?
 
This doesn't jibe with the fact that even before the Brady Bill 80% of crime guns weren't purchased over the table.
Do you suppose they meant that 40% of that 20% that *were* purchased legally, or do they really mean 40% can be traced back to the original purchase from the same retailers?
 
Wow, that was a virtually fact-free press release!

A study by researchers at the UC Davis School of Medicine and Medical Center has found that 1.3 percent of the licensed gun retailers in the state sell 39.4 percent of the handguns used in violent crime, and that those retailers share similar profiles -- pawn shops and retailers with a high rate of background-check failure are at higher risk for selling a handgun that will be used in a criminal act.

While both sides of the gun control debate have agreed that a few retailers were responsible for a high percentage of crime guns, many dismissed it as simply a result of sales volume -- large volume retailers would surely sell more crime guns than their smaller counterparts. The UC Davis study, published in the December issue of Injury Prevention, refutes that belief. It also shows that there is no correlation between crime gun sales and a community's social and demographic characteristics or neighborhood crime rates.
Click to expand...
Uh, yeah... we have pawn shops scattered all over the best parts of town.
 
Yep, fact free

:barf:

UC Davis is known for there fair and unbiased reporting :p Kind of like Berkley and Angela Davis. I wonder if they are related:D

Harley
 
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