One more thing about the 08 election

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Let's look at facts for a minute. Right now the facts say that unless the Democratic party changes drasticly they will loose agian. According to CBS (Withholding comments) Kerry lost becuase he lacked moral values. The DFL may have gone quiet about guns but their rotten values are the same old, same old. It cost them the election in 04 and it will cost them again. The general American public opposes the DFL for their stance on Abortion, gay marriage and the like. The only people who vote for the DFL in "The Heartland" are those die hards that would vote for Joesph Stalin if he ran on the DFL ticket. Kerry's scandal over the war did not help his case either. I was happy to see Bush win again just to rub it in the democrats who had not gotten over Gore's loss in 00. I think it's too early to say what party will win. Who will win depends on who is the canidate for each party. But I do think that all of this worrying will not do anything. The most we are able to do at this point is wait for the primary.
 
Two years is forever in politics - however if the current trends continue then the democrats will win the white house, (the only provision here is that the individual who runs as a candidate for the office of president makes a huge difference, you can't run a dork, people want a president that "looks like a president"). In the up coming 06 election, the odds are very good that the democrats will win back the senate and the house. The democrats do not have to stand for much of anything as long as the current animosity towards the present administration continues to grow. People will vote for change, will vote to show their disapproval, and will not be too overly concerned about who or what they are voting into office/power so long as they get rid of that/those to whom they object. Besides the democrats have pollsters and political consultants and they will be careful craft their message in the general election to appeal to as many voters as possible. Political junkies read/see/hear their actual policies and their speeches to the party faithful so they see behind the mask, but the average voter doesn't see any of that, and they are easily sold by a few emotional adds, especially if they don't particularily like the present party in power.

Doesn't make me happy - though the republicans aren't a whole lot better. Sign me, someone who is tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. :(
 
Here is my question though. What percentage of the population actualy hates Bush and the current GOP controlled govt.? Now I'm not implying that everyone just loves them. But what I am asking is how many like Bush and the GOP better than the DFL. The news polls say Bush has an all time low approval rating. If this is true why did he win re-election? The news media has and always will swing in such a manner to make the DFL look better. Look at CBS as an extreme example. In the 04 election they refused to admit that Bush had won. Every other network on the satelite was anouncing Bush as the winner. Dan Rather was saying "We don't know yet." I realise that this is an extreme example but I did so to make a point. I think that depending on what canidates are elected at the primarys it could swing either way. If Hilary is nominated the DFL will loose for sure. She has too much bagage. But how do we know that some unknown won't show up? Kerry was a virtual unknown until the primary. Prior to that everyone thought Howard Dean was to be the DFL canidate. Also take into account that the GOP with be putting forth a new canidate as well.
IMO it's just too early to tell.

Shotgun
 
The approval rating dropped after the election. How about those WMD's, eh?

As for CBS, I do recall some confusion involving Ohio.

It is pretty early to tell, but I don't really see Bush and the GOP making much of a turnaround in the next few years here.
 
The only people who vote for the DFL in "The Heartland" are those die hards that would vote for Joesph Stalin if he ran on the DFL ticket.
Huh? :confused:
I'm in the heartland. I have no qualms about voting Dem. I wouldn't vote for Stalin.
The general American public opposes the DFL for their stance on Abortion, gay marriage and the like.
Must be confusing your own opinion with that of the general public. Unless you can prove this one with a poll.

how many like Bush and the GOP better than the DFL.
Judging by the poll results, I'd say 35-40%. Of course, that can change drastically over 2 years.

The news polls say Bush has an all time low approval rating. If this is true why did he win re-election?
Because he didn't have an all-time low approval rating at the time of the election.

Look... It seems very likely that the Dems are taking over the House this year. There is also a very real possibility they may reach or even exceed parity in the Senate as well. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that even the most ardent Bush-hater on this forum wants to see a Dem president under those circumstances.

In order to handle the threat, we need to address the situation the way it is, *not* the way we wish it was. The way I see it, it ain't the Dems who need to change at this point.
 
Let's look at facts for a minute. ... The general American public opposes the DFL for their stance on Abortion ...
I don't know if I'd call that a "fact", just another opinion, or maybe a wish.

I'm guessing that issue and that stance gets the Dems a lot of votes, especially among women.

My voting tends to be sort of one-issue, 2A. Other people tend to vote one-issue - abortion.

I'd vote for GWB again. I think he's doing a lousy job, but at least he's not Kerry.

Regards.
 
Kerry lost becuase he lacked moral values.

I think that is also going to haunt the Republicans this year.....

Foley
Ney
Cunningham
Delay
and a cast of others

While the Democrats are not any better, Listening to a Republican talk about moral values is pretty amusing.
 
Must be confusing your own opinion with that of the general public. Unless you can prove this one with a poll.

The Moral Majority
From the November 5, 2004 Wall Street Journal: When it came to values, John Kerry was his own worst enemy.
by Terry Eastland
11/05/2004 9:30:00 AM


TUESDAY'S EXIT POLLS showed that voters identified "moral values" ahead of jobs and the economy--and even terrorism--as the matter most on their minds. Some 80 percent of those most concerned about values voted for George W. Bush. Obviously, "value voters" helped President Bush win a second term. Bush had a lot to do with that, of course, in the positions he took and the rhetoric he used. But so did John Kerry.

Bush repeatedly defined the "values" at stake in the election. He introduced the subject in speeches by stating--as he did last week in Westlake, Ohio--that "over the next four years, we will work to protect and defend the values that make our country such a unique place." You'll note the defining clause there, a testament to American exceptionalism, itself a value and not one highlighted by the global-tester Kerry.

Bush then identified his support for "a culture of life in which every being matters and every person counts" (abortion) and in which marriage and family are "the foundations of our society."(Gays) And he drew contrasts with Kerry, noting his own support for the partial-birth abortion bill and for the federal Defense of Marriage Act--and Kerry's opposition.

The president also cited judicial restraint as a value--"I stand for judges who know the difference between personal opinion and the strict interpretation of the law." Bush didn't always make the further point--though many in his audiences understood it--that a Supreme Court majority, ignoring that important difference, had given the country Roe v. Wade in 1973. Nor
did he note--although this, too, was understood--that judges today might again disregard pertinent law and impose same-sex marriage on the country unless they are prevented from doing so by a constitutional amendment defining marriage in traditional terms.

Smart Democrats have long understood their party's inability to reach out to people concerned about the values that Bush identified--people who, by and large, draw their moral values from their religious beliefs. Kerry never found a way to speak to them. Moreover, for these voters, Kerry was sometimes his own worst enemy.

In July, for example, Kerry and John Edwards went to a fund-raiser at Radio City Music Hall that featured big-name movie stars and other artists. Many of them thundered against Bush, who was called a "liar" and a "cheap thug" and was warned (by Meryl Streep) not to take religion on the campaign trail. Kerry said that the performers conveyed "the heart and soul of America." Bush, capitalizing on Kerry's words, noted at campaign stops that, while his opponent thought that you can find "the heart and soul of America in Hollywood," it is really "found right here"--the very place Bush was in.

Still, Kerry was determined not to cede the values debate to Bush. Aware of the church-attendance gap--at-least-weekly churchgoers tend to vote Republican, less-than-weekly churchgoers (and never-goers) tend to vote Democratic--Kerry sought to discuss his own faith and thereby convey his deepest values.

Yet here the Catholic Kerry encountered problems. He said that he believes life to begin at conception but that he could not "legislate" a pro-life bill (given the First Amendment ban on establishing religion) because his belief was a Catholic teaching. Then he cited other aspects of his faith--touching on the environment, equality and justice--that he said would shape his policies.
Here's the link http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/890ibqqm.asp

Okay so it's not a poll. But the fact it was printed in The Wall Street Journal shows that it is mainstream. It shows that the Democrats lost because of lack of moral values. This same trend was reported by CBS but at the present time I can not find their poll.
 
Shotgun Minister
how many like Bush and the GOP, better than the DFL.
One here!

kozak6
The approval rating dropped after the election. How about those WMD's, eh?
The Liberal left has crippled the Intelligence Community by denying funding and reducing their powers after the Cold War ended... It's little wonder that the intel of several Western Nations was flawed or failed or non-existent...

And shallow-minded people just keep on blaming the White House for things they have had little or no power to correct... :mad:

sleeping dog
I'm guessing that issue (Pro-Abortion) and that stance gets the Dems a lot of votes, especially among women.
Don't guess... consider that the great majority of women are not murderers by choice... When any reasonable woman sees and learns what acutally happens when an abortion takes place in her own womb... the resulting effect on her, is enough to make PMS and Post Partum Depression look like child's play. Not to mention Partial Birth Abortion...

The effect of "education" on this matter, is turning the majority of women against "casual" abortion... and justifies abortion only when the mother's survival is threatened or when the pregnancy was caused by incest or rape.

It is an interesting irony... that the same Liberal mentality that opposes hunting whales and the annual slaughter of white, baby seals by clubbing... is now at least "partially" supportive of partial-birth abortion on human babies. They wear the same mask over the same faces!!

I also say, that if a woman does choose "casual" abortion as a means of birth control... The taxpayers should not be required to pay for it! :mad:
 
Shotgun minister,
I know what you're saying, but that conclusion was debunked a short time later.
It doesn't support your claim that 'the general public opposes the DNC' for *any* reason, let alone this reason.


conservitive_Repub,
I'd recommend against that. If you don't like the thought of Dems controlling Congress, I doubt you'll prefer life in Kanukistan.
If you insist on doing this then you have one month to stock up on thermal underwear and learn French.
 
I don't believe that even the most ardent Bush-hater on this forum wants to see a Dem president under those circumstances.
Why not... The Dems in charge of the majority and a Dem President in the White House??... it has been this way for most of 50 years. :rolleyes:

Whenever the people put a Republican in the White House, they put a Dem majority in the congress... :cool:

That's why we are in this mess today... The Republicans have not had a deciding majority in both houses for at least that long...
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the democrats will not regain power in Washington until they renounce socialism. The US is not a socialist state and never will be.
 
All I am going to say is that you better invest in a good gun safe when the Dems take over.

You think guns are expensive now, get ready to stock up on ammo and guns. I don't mean an over throw, I mean that when they get the Pres seat, that we will never be able to get guns or ammo ever again.

They will win too, and it will suck and we will become a country of wusses and pansies

We are talking a shift of 15 seats in the House, 6 seats in the Senate. Thats hardly a majority.

Clinton took over in 1992; we added 15 more states with right to carry laws during that period. In Texas we have 3 Democratic incumbents to Congress who support gun rights. There are other democrats who are pro gun members of Congress. While I think there will be a scurry to get some stuff passed on gun control I am optimistic that the pro gun members of both the Congress and Senate gum up the works for the anti gun guys. I dont think the sky is falling yet. My guns survived 8 years of the Clinton era. I think they will make it through the next administration. I tell you what the likely combination would be to get more anti-gun legislation passed. A Republican anti-gun President and the anti-gun Democrats in Congress. That is what ought to scare you.
 
Quote on Democratic Party fron local newspaper

Letters To the Editor:
Can’t love
Evildoers
I now understand why there is so much hate between liberal and conservatives.
All the lies, name-calling and hyporisy has driven a wedge between neighbors, friends and, family.
The liberals have finally created an environment in this country, of hate, moral decline and disrespect for others.
They talk about how President Bush lied about Iraq and weapons of mass destruction and, 30,000 innocent people have died.
These same people support a woman’s choice to have an abortion. Talk about hypocrisy! I don’t believe the 47 million innocent babies who were aborted had weapons of mass-destruction.
They continue to spread their hatred of Christianity by, eliminating anything that pertains to God.
Yes, you should love thy neighbor unless thy neighbor is doing the work of Satin. So, if you are a true Christian and not just a church goer then, you will understand what God has tought us from the beginning of time.
You are to believe in God and never turn your back on him to embrace any religion that worship false idols.
People of faith can’t continue to support a party that will stop at nothing do destroy God an everything he stands for.
 
These same people support a woman’s choice to have an abortion. Talk about hypocrisy! I don’t believe the 47 million innocent babies who were aborted had weapons of mass-destruction.
They continue to spread their hatred of Christianity by, eliminating anything that pertains to God.
Yes, you should love thy neighbor unless thy neighbor is doing the work of Satin. So, if you are a true Christian and not just a church goer then, you will understand what God has tought us from the beginning of time.
You are to believe in God and never turn your back on him to embrace any religion that worship false idols.
People of faith can’t continue to support a party that will stop at nothing do destroy God an everything he stands for.

Last time I looked in America we had freedom of religion. That means the freedom to practice religion or not to practice it. This is a nation of laws not a theocracy. If you neighbor wants to to do the work of Satan as you see it but isnt violating the law thats his business.

Just this last week in our area we had a group who proclaimed themselves to be true Christians protesting at a soldiers funeral who had died in Iraq that God hates America and was punishing us by killing our soldiers because gays have rights in America.

Seems to me that some Christians have angered people against them simply for the fact that these religious groups dont mind of sticking thier noses in other folks business. However, they dont want anybody sticking their nose in the churches business. So a little of this is probably of thier own doing.

Christians would seem to be better off worrying about their own relationship with God instead of worrying about what other folks are doing. In America there is the right of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Also freedom of religion and from religion.

I don't understand this eliminating God message. If I choose to pray I can do so. I can go to the church of my choice on Sunday. Next time you get hauled off for making a personal prayer let me know and I will come picket with you.
 
moral values??

" Listening to a Republican talk about moral values is pretty amusing."

***I'm not amused, but I am certainly disgusted. Bush supporters seem to think morality consists of opposing hot-button things like gay marriage and abortion rights while endorsing things like torturing helpless prisoners, locking up people for life without charge, much less fair trials, and an endless "war" which justifies eliminating most of the things our Bill of Rights grants US citizens. The Republican "culture of life" (an Orwellian term for sure) purports massive concern with the microscopic "lives" of blastocysts and the intrauterine lives of fetuses; there seems to far less concern with the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men women and children who have died as a result of the US invasion and occupation of their country.

As to all "decent" women opposing abortion, I guess I'm the scum of the earth because I don't think any woman should be forced to give birth against her will.
 
Madison wrote:
They talk about how President Bush lied about Iraq and weapons of mass destruction and, 30,000 innocent people have died.
These same people support a woman’s choice to have an abortion. Talk about hypocrisy! I don’t believe the 47 million innocent babies who were aborted had weapons of mass-destruction...People of faith can’t continue to support a party that will stop at nothing do destroy God an everything he stands for.

***Have you actually read all of the Bible? Do you recall all the passages where God commands genocide, including the slaughter of infants? I guess they weren't as innocent as American fetuses.
Can you quote any specific chapter and verse where God forbids abortion? He does advocate the death penalty for disobedient sons who are drunkards, but I haven't found any for women who have abortions or who use contraception which prevents implantation of fertilized eggs.
 
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