my friend has an older bps with the single or repeater switch that fairly consistently will fail to eject the last shell from the magazine from the tube to be load into the chamber. At first I thought it was just dirty, so I gave it a pretty through cleaning. But still it fails to load the last shell about 70% of the time on the first stroke. Regardless of the force of the stroke, often it will take 4-5 before the shell will load. Oddly with the gun upside it tends to load more consistently only failing about 30 percent of the time. Any thoughts or suggestions I can try to get this running better?
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Older browning bps feeding problems
- Thread starter hightower
- Start date
Unless you can see that it's a carrier problem, the 1st thing I'd try is a new mag spring from Wolff.
Their 12 ga. mag spring used to be stock # 65165. Should be about $6-7. It's 20% extra power. Count the coils on your factory spring...cut the Wolff spring accordingly.
If it's an old gun, the spring may be sufficiently fatigued to cause problems. Or someone may have done something like stretching the spring "to increase power" which is always counterproductive.
http://www.gunsprings.com/
800-545-0077
Their 12 ga. mag spring used to be stock # 65165. Should be about $6-7. It's 20% extra power. Count the coils on your factory spring...cut the Wolff spring accordingly.
If it's an old gun, the spring may be sufficiently fatigued to cause problems. Or someone may have done something like stretching the spring "to increase power" which is always counterproductive.
http://www.gunsprings.com/
800-545-0077
Last edited:
Thanks for the reply, that was the first thing that popped into my headed also. What is puzzling me though is that if the gun is upside down the problem gets remarkably better. As in horizontal in regards to muzzle and buttstock but magazine tube over the barrel. Either way I'm probably over thinking it and a new spring will cure it.
cleaning and a new spring are always the first places to start ....
but I would also try some different shells / different brand --- just in case - to see if it is only acting up with one brand of shells.
If they're shooting reloads .... make sure they've been run thru a press that has a re-sizer ---- and if you've been having problems with reloads - try some factory ammo and see if its still happening.
I'm not sure why it makes any sense that it would be better upside down ....( I have a pair of BPS's - made in the 70's - in 12ga and 20ga ) ...and nothing changes mechanically when you roll the gun over that I can think of that would make a difference ??
but I would also try some different shells / different brand --- just in case - to see if it is only acting up with one brand of shells.
If they're shooting reloads .... make sure they've been run thru a press that has a re-sizer ---- and if you've been having problems with reloads - try some factory ammo and see if its still happening.
I'm not sure why it makes any sense that it would be better upside down ....( I have a pair of BPS's - made in the 70's - in 12ga and 20ga ) ...and nothing changes mechanically when you roll the gun over that I can think of that would make a difference ??
I did some more investigating this morning and notice a light push on the shell release button (the passenger side bar) will release the shell and allow it to feed. He is going to be bummed I just did some experimenting with some rio shells I had laying around and they are 100%. He has been exclusively using the federal bulk from Wally world for the price.
I don't have a micrometer but to the eye the federal rim is just a hair bigger. As far as being upside down the only thing I can think is the shell will rest more on the top of the tube gain the fraction of an inch it needs to clear the shell catch. Instead of being at the bottom of the mag tube where it would engage the catch more?
Would a couple swipes of a file clear this up. He's not very active when it comes to shooting, any excuses I can get past to get him out and shooting should get him over the hump and hooked on our great hobby. If he has to pay 7 bucks a box instead of 5 that a downer and any teaching tips you can impart would be great too. I tried coaching good check weld forward stance and looking down a flat vent rib. But still out of 75 or so clays he hit 2-3. We tried a couple different guns for fit none got any better. I has throwing straight clays (no curves or crossing) to try to build confidence. Setting clays on the ground was alittle better but misses were pretty irratic. Fortunately the feeding problem did not spotlight any flinching. But I'll put him behind my new to me 20 ga moss 500 to see if the helps.
Thanks for all the help so far though I got him committed to going Sunday weather permitting.
I don't have a micrometer but to the eye the federal rim is just a hair bigger. As far as being upside down the only thing I can think is the shell will rest more on the top of the tube gain the fraction of an inch it needs to clear the shell catch. Instead of being at the bottom of the mag tube where it would engage the catch more?
Would a couple swipes of a file clear this up. He's not very active when it comes to shooting, any excuses I can get past to get him out and shooting should get him over the hump and hooked on our great hobby. If he has to pay 7 bucks a box instead of 5 that a downer and any teaching tips you can impart would be great too. I tried coaching good check weld forward stance and looking down a flat vent rib. But still out of 75 or so clays he hit 2-3. We tried a couple different guns for fit none got any better. I has throwing straight clays (no curves or crossing) to try to build confidence. Setting clays on the ground was alittle better but misses were pretty irratic. Fortunately the feeding problem did not spotlight any flinching. But I'll put him behind my new to me 20 ga moss 500 to see if the helps.
Thanks for all the help so far though I got him committed to going Sunday weather permitting.
Wow - lots of stuff here ......
1. I wouldn't file down anything on the gun - to make the cheap ammo work. I think it will lead to more problems down the road.
Rio's and Estate shells over on this side of the mountain - are both pretty cheap / he might try those. Some gun clubs will give him a deal on a case ....but I think he needs to quit using the wally world junk ...
2. 2 or 3 out of 75 is not stellar .....so you need to build up his confidence. You need to get him a straight away bird / where it rises up and flattens out ( like a low house bird, station 7 on skeet ) ..... and stay with that bird until he can hit 3 of 3 - take a break - and hit 3 of 3 again.
Then change the angle just a little / so he has to give it a little lead / but not much .... and if he's a rightie - then make it to his left ( so he hugs the gun to his face as the bird moves to the left ) vs going to the right where he might be pushing the gun away from his face - and missing.
Take small steps - build his confidence on each type of angle.
Work on mount - stance - and follow thru. The example I like is get him in a gravel parking lot. Toss a tennis ball - and let him have a hand full of gravel --- and let him toss the gravel underhand at the ball rolling on the ground ( just like a column of shot ) ....give him a straight away / then one with just a little angle ( so he gets some lead, and some follow thru) .....the idea being, is when you pull the trigger on a shotgun - its the "start of the shot" not the end of the shot. You have to "feel the lead", keep gun moving, pull trigger - and keep the gun moving and watch it break. If at any point, if he stops the gun, as he pulls the trigger - he has no follow thru and he's behind everything ....
A BPS is cast neutral - so it fits both lefties and righties pretty well. It may be too low at comb / or at heel. Get some paper bags / or whatever and flatten them out / put a full choke in gun - get him to shoulder the gun ( at 20 yards or so ) and shoot at a 1" Dot on paper - and see where the gun is hitting. If its left or right - he's probably jerking the trigger -----if its high or low ....you need to do something on the comb or butt ...or move him up or back a little on the comb (so muzzle goes up or down ) depending on what you need. Changing the thickness of a coat / or putting a sweater on under the coat - will change where his cheek meets the comb and cause the barrel to move up or down and change the point of impact. Get the gun so it hits where he is looking - ideally at the dot....
Make sure he's using an "open choke" when he's shooting at clays. At 20 yards a Skeet or Cyclinder choke is probably enough .... even at 30 yards don't go tighter than an Imp Cyclinder. At 35 - 40 yards a Modified....
That gun should have come with 3 chokes ....unless its fixed / then its another issue ...
The other thing is - better shells - will probably pattern better. Frankly for inexpensive shells - I like Rio's. The other thing - is make sure they're light recoil ( 1 oz or even 7/8 oz of shot at 1150 fps or no faster than 1200 fps / 3 Dr Equivalent max ---) is important for a new shooter. He does not need shot size bigger than 8's / and 9's might be better yet ( he doesn't need 7 1/2's at this stage ).
and try that ....for awhile ....
1. I wouldn't file down anything on the gun - to make the cheap ammo work. I think it will lead to more problems down the road.
Rio's and Estate shells over on this side of the mountain - are both pretty cheap / he might try those. Some gun clubs will give him a deal on a case ....but I think he needs to quit using the wally world junk ...
2. 2 or 3 out of 75 is not stellar .....so you need to build up his confidence. You need to get him a straight away bird / where it rises up and flattens out ( like a low house bird, station 7 on skeet ) ..... and stay with that bird until he can hit 3 of 3 - take a break - and hit 3 of 3 again.
Then change the angle just a little / so he has to give it a little lead / but not much .... and if he's a rightie - then make it to his left ( so he hugs the gun to his face as the bird moves to the left ) vs going to the right where he might be pushing the gun away from his face - and missing.
Take small steps - build his confidence on each type of angle.
Work on mount - stance - and follow thru. The example I like is get him in a gravel parking lot. Toss a tennis ball - and let him have a hand full of gravel --- and let him toss the gravel underhand at the ball rolling on the ground ( just like a column of shot ) ....give him a straight away / then one with just a little angle ( so he gets some lead, and some follow thru) .....the idea being, is when you pull the trigger on a shotgun - its the "start of the shot" not the end of the shot. You have to "feel the lead", keep gun moving, pull trigger - and keep the gun moving and watch it break. If at any point, if he stops the gun, as he pulls the trigger - he has no follow thru and he's behind everything ....
A BPS is cast neutral - so it fits both lefties and righties pretty well. It may be too low at comb / or at heel. Get some paper bags / or whatever and flatten them out / put a full choke in gun - get him to shoulder the gun ( at 20 yards or so ) and shoot at a 1" Dot on paper - and see where the gun is hitting. If its left or right - he's probably jerking the trigger -----if its high or low ....you need to do something on the comb or butt ...or move him up or back a little on the comb (so muzzle goes up or down ) depending on what you need. Changing the thickness of a coat / or putting a sweater on under the coat - will change where his cheek meets the comb and cause the barrel to move up or down and change the point of impact. Get the gun so it hits where he is looking - ideally at the dot....
Make sure he's using an "open choke" when he's shooting at clays. At 20 yards a Skeet or Cyclinder choke is probably enough .... even at 30 yards don't go tighter than an Imp Cyclinder. At 35 - 40 yards a Modified....
That gun should have come with 3 chokes ....unless its fixed / then its another issue ...
The other thing is - better shells - will probably pattern better. Frankly for inexpensive shells - I like Rio's. The other thing - is make sure they're light recoil ( 1 oz or even 7/8 oz of shot at 1150 fps or no faster than 1200 fps / 3 Dr Equivalent max ---) is important for a new shooter. He does not need shot size bigger than 8's / and 9's might be better yet ( he doesn't need 7 1/2's at this stage ).
and try that ....for awhile ....
Man I love this forum, knowledgable and helpful people posting relevant info.
1. I'm no gun smith and putting a file to this thing was the last thing i was hoping to do.
2. I only have one of those red hand throwers, and i was throwing straight aways, floating them as much as possible. I'll have him pattern his gun before we start throwing clays to see if he's pushing or pulling at all.
The gun is a fixed choke but I did just pick up a imp cyl choke fore my 870 so I may start him behind that to build some confidence.
Either way i'm bring some towels and tape. Hopefully he can get in on a few of our baseball games. One guy throws aka pitches and the other shoots til he get three missed clays or outs. Three shells per clay, at three outs it's a side change. Each broken clay is a hit most number of hits wins. We usually do three innings, really turns in to psychologic war alla pitcher vs batter when your hand throwing. Even some friendly trash talking occasionally.
Anyway Jim thanks for all the help
1. I'm no gun smith and putting a file to this thing was the last thing i was hoping to do.
2. I only have one of those red hand throwers, and i was throwing straight aways, floating them as much as possible. I'll have him pattern his gun before we start throwing clays to see if he's pushing or pulling at all.
The gun is a fixed choke but I did just pick up a imp cyl choke fore my 870 so I may start him behind that to build some confidence.
Either way i'm bring some towels and tape. Hopefully he can get in on a few of our baseball games. One guy throws aka pitches and the other shoots til he get three missed clays or outs. Three shells per clay, at three outs it's a side change. Each broken clay is a hit most number of hits wins. We usually do three innings, really turns in to psychologic war alla pitcher vs batter when your hand throwing. Even some friendly trash talking occasionally.
Anyway Jim thanks for all the help