Old West Single Action Revolver Accuracy

[Quantum Singularity]

I'm curious as to how the true 1880 type old west revolvers grouped. I keep reading about the great shooting of many of the old gunfighters, and I wonder were the guns more accurate back then or were the shooters better trained? Anyone know what kind of groups those revolvers got at 25 yards? Are todays pistols more or less accurate?

 

[Hal]

This is just personal conjecture, but I feel that shooting for groups and group sizes are prtty much a modern day quest. Most of the stories I've seen refer to shooting at "things" rather than a piece of paper. In my own experience, I find it far easier to hit a specific target rather than concentrate on group size. If I suspend spent 20 ga shotgun shells at 25 yards, I can manage to hit them more times than not for instance, but these days with my eyes getting tired, I can't manage better than a 5" group on the best of days.

I should add that this is with a Ruger Blackhawk .45LC. Not real scientific, I admit, but kinda illustrates what I mean.


[This message has been edited by RAE (edited October 24, 2000).]

 

[WESHOOT2]

Just as today, some guns (and shooters) were more accurate than others.

Some tested oldies give better than 2"/25 yds.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"

 

[whiskey]

Back then all guns were made by hand, that may have led to better accuracy.

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so he cocked both his pistols, spit in the dirt, and walked out into the street.

 

[Cap n ball]

I shoot several different replicas of those old time handguns. The Peddersoli people make about as authentic a reproduction as possible. With those guns you have to fire at least several hundred rounds to break in the bore and sight-in the gun. Since the muzzel sight is fixed you have to bench fire it and then file the tip of the sight down until the grouping is as accurate as possible. It's pretty touchy business but with the right load and with the sight ground to the gnats eyelash you can put bullets through the same holes regularly. I don't imagine it would be any different with the real thing from 1850 on up.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I got some time in a couple months ago with a friend who has a Colt Peacemaker, 1902 vintage, in .32-20.

The darned thing is VERY accurate. At 25 yards, off a bench, it would turn in 2 to 3" groups without too much of a problem at all.

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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.

If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!

 

[RickB]

I've shot my 1st Gen. Colt with blackpowder loads, and I'd say it groups as well as anything else I shoot. The area where modern guns are a vast improvement is in sustained fire. I can fire eighteen rounds of blackpowder ammo, then the gun will cease to function from powder fouling. After the initial eighteen, it's every twelve rounds, with cleaning in between. Old Frontier Six Shooters have chamber mouths that vary from .425" to .428" or more, so accuracy might vary a bit from gun to gun. I'm able to buy bullets sized to fit my gun, with the best modern lubes, etc., so the pistolero on the frontier didn't have it as well as we do today.

 

[James K]

Hi, Whiskey,

"All guns were made by hand"? That would have amused the folks at Colt, Winchester, Remington, Springfield Armory, Marlin, S&W, etc., who had the silly idea they were mass producing guns with mostly interchangeable parts.

The guns of the late 1800's and early 1900's were very accurate, as others have said. The difference was in the shooters, many of whom just weren't that good. Ammunition was expensive and few people (barring the mostly fictional "gunfighter") didn't practice much. Real gunfights were usually at short range and even then the combatants often missed each other.

Sights were poor and required good eyesight for accurate shooting at a time when glasses were in use, but expensive and not common. Telescopic sights were known but uncommon and few rifles of the time were equipped with them.

The main reason for the reputation of the old western outlaws and lawmen was that they were killers, where most people today, even those skilled with guns, are not.

Jim

 

[Cap n ball]

Your absolutely right Jim. The classic duel in the street just didn't happen very often. Most handguns were used in a stealthy manner and the expense of powder and caps and bullets just didn't lend itself to much practice. Also there was usually a very high price to be paid for mistakes made by the combatants. A wound with a .36 or .44 cal ball brought amputation with it if not death.

Anyway, all of this discussion made me drop by a gunshop today at lunch. After picking out a few cleaning brushes I wandered over to the place where there were a few black powder replicas for sale. Wouldn't you know that there was a Uberti .36 cal Navy Colt that had been there for at least a year and the shop owner was willing to get rid of it for $125.00. I couldn't resist. Now I've got three of them. Two are replicas. One more and my wife will make me take up bushwhacking.

 

[Art Eatman]

As near as I can tell, most "gunfights" involved Bad Guy walking up behing Target and at some ten feet or so, hollered, "Hey, @#$%#!" Bad Guy already has his gun in hand; Target turns around; bang.

Somewhere in the late 1880s, there was a gunfight in a saloon in Fort Stockton, Texas. Some ten or eleven guys were involved. The lights got shot out early on. The fight ended with everybody out of ammo. Nobody had been hit. Well over 100 bullet holes were found--tables, chairs, walls, roof, bar...But none in the people!

, Art

 

[James K]

Hi, folks,

One of the most common and mistaken beliefs about the "Old West" was that all the handguns were Colt SAA's and all the rifles were Winchesters.

In fact, just about every gun made went West at one time or another. In the post-war period, most were war surplus Colt, Remington, Starr, and other cap and ball revolvers.

About 1872, cartridge guns began to appear, and S&Ws were pretty popular. Colt SAA's were expensive and the first production went to the Army, so these did not become known until the late 1870's. Later, Colt gained an advantage when S&W signed the Russian contract and all its large frame production went to that nation for several years.

But there were other guns, of good and not so good quality. M&H's were popular, as were other Colts and S&Ws. The Colt DA was fairly popular, though, like all Colts, expensive. Just about every kind of what were later called "suicide specials" was carried on the frontier, and many thousands of .30, .32, .38 and .44 solid frame and topbreak revolvers were out there.

Naturally, those who relied most on their pistols (commonly so called, the distinction between revolver and auto pistol and the term "handgun" were for a later day), outlaws and lawmen, tended to have the higher quality arms.

No one was much into preserving their guns for future generations of collectors. A gun was a tool, and I have not lately seen a carpenter preserving his hammer or saw for collectors. Most of the "guns of the old west" are close to junk. Exceptions were those kept in bureau drawers and a few presentation pieces that were set aside and not used.

Pistols were not as commonly carried by real cowboys as the movies would indicate. Many ranches prohibited the carrying of pistols, though they issued rifles. Another myth is the cowboy with his faithful horse. Very few working cowboys owned a horse, though some owned their saddles. Even townspeople rarely owned a horse or buggy, renting one when they needed to make a trip. Doctors and ministers would have horses and perhaps a buggy, a law officer would have a horse. Others went to the "O.K. Corral" or whatever the local livery stable was called and rented by the day or half day.

Jim