Old Revolvers: .38 SW vs. 38 Special

D

Drakejake

New member
I have become interested in old revolvers but most of them seem to use obsolete or exotic ammo such as .455 Webley, .32 Smith and Wesson, .38 smith and Wesson, etc. British and American revolvers seem to have been chambered for these antique rounds well into the middle of the 20th century. Granted, there are some .22's, but I understand the older revolvers aren't strong enough to stand up to .22lr. I choose my guns partially on the basis of the cheapness and availability of the ammo. Can anyone comment on the ammo for these old revolvers and when and why the modern .38 special ammo came to the fore?

Thanks,

Drakejake
 
if you can find one in .32 S&W Long a.k.a. 32 Colt New Police, then you have one which takes the standard UIT centrefire cartridge as used in the Hammerli etc. Plenty of that still being made.
If the guns are proved for Black Powder cartridges then it's probably wise not to use smokeless loads. That said, most decent quality .22LR revolvers from the beginning of the 20th c. should handle modern standard velocity cartridges OK.
The +P and +P+ .38 Spec. loads started to appear in the 1970s in an attempt to boost the modest abilities of .38 service revolvers.
 
Mk VII

Posting from ENGLAND???

Will the gov't now search out and cut up your reply?

Terrible when a forum is as close as you can get to a gun.

Throw the tea in the harbor. Don't hit the Queen.
 
Caution
A Considerable number of the revolvers designed for the .38 S&W will chamber and fire .38 specials. NOT SAFE.

I found one with cylinder long enough that it would chamber .357 magnum. (with 125 gr JHP the length of cartridge was short enough to allow the cylinder to rotate.) NOT SAFE

Sam
 
The .38 Special was introduced in 1899 or so, the .38 S&W dates from around 1873 or so.

The .38 Spl. was a development out of the .38 Long Colt, which at the time was the military's official handgun round.

The Long Colt's failings were well known from it's military days in the Philippines, so S&W lengthened the case, increased the bullet weight, and put in more black powder. The round was certainly more powerful, but by that time the military had soured on small-caliber handguns, so S&W went after the civilian market with the .38 Spl.

The .38 S&W remained in production with S&W until the 1970s, or 20 years after the introduction of the J-frames in .38 Spl. It just sort of outlived its usefulness, really.
 
The .38 S&W (also .38 British or .38/200) is shorter than the .38 Special but uses a slight larger bullet. The bore on the Special is .357 while on the .38 S&W it runs around .360. Many British military .38s were imported into the US after WW II and converted to .38 Special by reaming the chambers. Cases will usually split on these when fired in the oversized chambers and accuracy is nil.
 
Lavan-

I certainly understand your sentiments re the UK handgun ban, but for the record, don't blame the Queen. She wasn't behind it, and Prince Phillip even said publicly that it seemed unwise (for which the liberal press blasted him). A member of the House of Lords also conducted a study that showed no likely benefit and that it would only infringe on the rights of decent gun oowners.

The villains are Tony Blair and his Labour Party and the damned left-wing media.

Lone Star
 
Both .38 S&W and .32 S&W are still being manufactured. The cost of these rounds are slightly higher than the more common rounds. However, the prices don't seem unreasonable.

Remington loads both the .38 and .32 S&W.
 
I recall having a box of British service .38 S&W cartridges which would happily chamber in a 686. Didn't try firing them, of course.
 
Actually, the 38S&W case is only a thousandth larger than the 38SPL. Bullet size is the same.

The 38S&W is a really pleasant round to shoot and so accurate it even makes me look good.

:D :eek:
 
Old Ammo

The .38 S&W is a very common chambering. It is about th same pressure as a .38 Spl. though it is somewhat less powerful. The .38 S&W is very accurate in a good gun, and revolvers chambered for it are frequently available at low prices. This round is still loaded and can be had thorough the normal sources, and brass for reloading is available as well.

Much the same as is noted above can be said for .32 S&W Long. It is a very pleasant round to shoot, and in a quality gun is quite inexpensive to shoot. .32 S&W Short can easily be made from the long version. Again, the .32 S&W Long is still made and can be bought through normal channels.

FWIW

Chuck
 
Jar,

The .38 S&W case is actually closer to 1/100th larger, .379 for the .38 Spl. to .386 for the .38 S&W.

At least that's what COTW says.
 
Uncommon to find a steel .38 special or .357 mag that will chamber the .38 S&W. A little more common tho in the case of high mileage stainless guns with expanded chambers..

Sam
 
I had a 2" top break H&R .38 S&W back in the early 70's. At the time all I could find for it was round nose lead bullets (which is why I didn't keep it very long). It was, however, very accurate from the short barreled revolver. Like able to consistantly hit pop cans at 30 feet or so. Muzzel flash, blast and recoil were very mild. I understand the .38 S&W was a fairly popular round pre-1960's for guns intended to be kept in drawers or under the counter in jewlary stores, banks, etc. I believe Colt once made a "Bankers Special" in this caliber based on the Detective Special frame. As the name implies (and based on my limited experience with the round) it probably was a pretty good choice for close range, inside a building use. Especially for those that wanted to keep a gun around - but not shoot it much.
 
Mike

I've seen that over there as well. The reloaders bench shows .380 for the 38S&W and I know for a fact that they fit in a 38SPL or 357MAG and work. I haven't mic'd any cases myself but will try to do so one day.

Reloaders WorkBench

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But I also enjoy shooting them in my Colt Police Positive.

standard.jpg
 
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