Old double barrel shotgun help!

B

Blake Richardson

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hey guys! my father gave me a double barrel shotgun that was my grandpa's. i was told it was hand made for a mail man in the russian sector of germany?!?!? but i want to find out more than just that! THANKS!

it has on the barrel " -SPECIAL-GEWEEHR-LAUF-
-STAHL-


then 3 rings over lapping them selfs in a triangle shape

then -FRIED,KRUPP,AG-

then B S W (the S is bigger then the B and W) ~ S.u.h.l

28779 is the serial # "i think!!!" its on each piece of the gun!
 
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Suhl is a section/city in E germany.

There were 22LR bench guns made there (Suhl) in the late 50s.

Your guns other marks??
 
here are some quick pictures!

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No clue on the details but what did stand out to me was the fact that every screw slot is "oriented" or "indexed"... just SCREAMS "I CARE" on the part of the person/s from manufacture to present!
Brent
 
Do the gun a favor, and leave those screws absolutely alone... boogering up the screw slots with improperly fitting screwdrivers won't help anything.

It's too nice a gun to have that happen to it after all these years...

lpl
 
will do! we have not shot ever the gun just sits in the safe! but its really nice! i have never seen engravings like these!!! they are so intricate and detailed!!!!
 
Blake,

It looks like a WW2 bring-back, from Germany. I'd bet it was made before the war, and not for any mail man either 8^). Was your grandfather a WW2 veteran?

lpl
 
The top marks Stahl Essen indicate that the gun is made with steel from Essen.

SPECIAL GEWEHR LAUF-STAHL = German Special Steel, made in Stahl

Fried Krupp at one time was the largest industrial concerns in Germany with more than 100 factories and mills around the country. They made literally everything that could be made out of steel at one time.

This is a good clean example that is probably worth $600-900, depending upon overall condition which looks pretty nice.
 
A very nice shotgun you've got; the markings tell an interesting story, too. "BSW" stands for "Berlin-Suhler-Waffen", which was a company set up by the Nazis in 1938 to run the Simson & Co. gunmaking firm in Suhl (Simson was a Jewish gunmaker, and the Nazis wanted to eliminate the owners, but keep the company); the "S" in mountains on the water-table are one of the marks originally used by Simson, so it's likely that this gun was only partway through production at the time of the takeover. BSW itself was collapsed into the Gustloffewerke concern in 1940, and converted to military production only, so you've got a snapshot of a very specific time period. I would have the chambers measured to make sure you don't damage this shotgun by shooting it; it may have 2 1/2" / 66mm chambers (which might also be marked on the bottoms of the barrels), while most modern shells are either 2 3/4"/70mm or 3"/76mm long. The "Special-Gewehr-Lauf-Stahl" marking translates to "Special Gun barrel Steel", produced by the Friedrich Krupp Company of Essen.
 
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SDC has dug out what I have. However, I will state that the proof mark (crown over U and crowned crest) indicates EAST Germanyin my GunMarks book by Byron. Sauer built similar guns into the 50's - 70's.

The engraving, checkering, cocking indicators, wood indicate a high end gun. I would get it appraised.

On the bottom of the receiver in front of the trigger gaurd there appears to be a word in script. Can you read it?

Plus, measure the chambers.
 
WOW! u are observant Williamd.. i didnt even notice the script by the trigger guard!

it says SIMSON

and under the barrel it has a few symbols and a S, VI, U, 13/1 or 3/1, 66mm, and Nitro

thanks again for the help guys!!!
 
I don't know all the proof marks, but the 66 is chamber length in mm equivalent to 2 1/2, 2 9/16, 2 5/8" shells depending on how you round off, but definitely not the current standard 2 3/4" 70mm.
Interesting, the usual stamp is 65, not 66.

13/1 is the nominal barrel gauge, an oversize 13 gauge not quite accepting the 12 gauge plug; the Europeans liked to bore them tight in those days.
 
it could be 65 it is really small and hard to read...

now with the 13ga. u said no quite accepting the 12ga. but i put in 12ga. shell and it fit??? What dose that mean?

"DONT WORRIE I DIDNT FIRE IT" haha!
 
Blake, shell length is for a fired hull. A 2 3/4" shell is not that length before firing.

A 2 3/4" shell will insert into a 2 1/2" chamber, but when fired the crimped area has no room to completely open and pressures spike badly.

The good news, Polywad and Gamebore market 2 1/2" loads for targets and hunting.

As with all older guns, a checkover by a competent smith is mandatory.

As for the gun, a couple clues exist as to the quality.

Look at the scalloping at the rear of the action. Wood to metal fit is very tight.

The locking screws are also a clue.

Side clips didn't go on cheapo shotguns, and here the engraving isn't just to hide sloppy finishing.

Betcha the front trigger is hinged. An articulated trigger aids comfort on a light double.

Have it checked out and if the smith pronounces it sound, get proper ammo and enjoy.

A lot of shotguns got dufflebagged back to the US ca 1945. This was one of the better ones.

HTH....
 
Plus, you can probably get a GOOD smith to open the cylinder to take 2 3/4 rounds. With proof steel I doubt that is an issue.

Ok, Simson verifies my and SDC's findings. The triangles with the S is another Simson mark.

From the Blue Book of Gun Values ... in 1952 Russia returned control to GDR (?) and the company continued to make sporting arms, prams, bicycle and motorcycles. Operastions ceased in 2002 and bankruptcy in 2003. Pre-1936 guns are collector items.

The BB says to compare the price with Kreighoff and Merkel ... so no slouch!! Yours has all the high end indicators mentioned in the Blue Book. Both go into 5 digit prices for the early doubles!!

Not a bad gift!!!!
 
Kreighoff and Merkel oh WOW!!!!! those are nice! thanks dad!!! haha! he dont even know how much this gun is worth or he wouldnt of handed it to me! haha!

so should i get this gun re-done or leave it or what?
 
Did somebody actually say this gun is worth $600-900????

Must be all those scratches on the receiver bringing the price down, don't know why anybody would put it there on a gun that works perfectly fine without it...
 
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