Old AR needs a facelift

B

Bob S

New member
I have a Colt AR-15-A2 Gov't Carbine with carry handle and pencil barrel that I got in the early 90's. I really haven't shot it much, but was thinking of getting it out and updating it a bit. What modifications if any do you guys recommend? Would like to put an optic on it, but since it is not a flattop, not sure which option is best. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Another question I have always had...it has a bayo lug, but the front sight is farther back from the tip of the barrel than on a standard AR, so a standard bayo won't work. Anyone else had this problem?
 
Oh man there are a bazillion things you can do to an AR. However IMHO, since your upper has a non-removable carry handle, thus somewhat limiting your options, I would give thought to acquiring a completely different upper, maybe even chambered in a different caliber such as 6.8 SPC, with a flat top and rails and you can then go crazy as far as sights, optics, laser, light, , grip, the works. Then when you get tired of Barbie-ing it up, you can take comfort in the original boring upper. Just a thought.
 
"Another question I have always had...it has a bayo lug, but the front sight is farther back from the tip of the barrel than on a standard AR, so a standard bayo won't work. Anyone else had this problem?"

Everybody that has a 16" barrel and a carbine length gas system has that problem. A standard bayonet is just not made for that configuration.

If you really want an optic, the best solution is to sell the rifle you have and buy a flat top.
 
If you really want something different and don't want to keep it, I'd sell the rifle and get one that's more to your liking (like a 16" midlength; I believe a regular bayonet will fit those if you want that).

It's possible to swap just the upper receiver (moving your barrel over) so you get a flat top, but given the nature of your rifle, it's worth more sold as a piece (a genuine Colt is worth more than a frankenrifle).

If you absolutely want to keep your existing rifle but mount an optic, I'd probably recommend having a gunsmith install a free float handguard of good quality- you could mount a decent red dot or holographic optic to that (not ideal, but beats a carry handle mount).

Thing is, there's a bunch of things you COULD do to it, but there is very little I'd recommend doing to it; there's enough demand for a lightweight quality KISS rifle that you can easily get enough out of selling that Colt to pick up a Rock River, S&W, or similar quality flat top rifle and be pretty much even when looking at out of pocket costs. While things like carry handle mounts, handguards, new upper receiver (keeping existing barrel), etc. can be done, I don't know that I'd really recommend you do them. Results are likely to be iffy and you will probably end up wishing you'd traded or sold the thing.
 
Use the money you would have spent on upgrading and get what you want. Put the old Colt back in the safe for your kids.
 
You can get an assembled upper reciever ,say a YHM,for $130 or so.About the same price for a YHM free float four rail lightweight forend.
Look at White Oak Armament for an SDMR barrel,or explore buying a White Oak upper assembly.
You can keep your original rifle in original trim with no modification to its originality.Pull the takedown pins,stick on your new upper,and go shoot flies off the target.
One caveat,there may be some issue with an original Colt and whether the more common .250 takedown pins will work.If it is an issue,you will have to get an appropriate upper.
The frankenrifle stigma is not about the rifle.It is something that exists only in the minds of those who worry about it.
Good parts are good parts.Reliable is reliable,accurate is accurate.
YHM,Magpul,Gisselle and a good barrel make a darn fine frankenrifleIf you get your Brownell's AR-15 catalogue out,and look at their examples of custom builds,they are all frankenrifles.
btw,if you go to the Brownell's site,they have an "AR-15 builder section."
You can pick your parts and build a virtual rifle.
Do be careful about the takedown pin sizes-Something fuzzy in my mind about .312 pins on different centers,that what some of the eccentric adapter pins are about.
Talk to White Oak about a Squad Designated Marksman (or whatever YOU want) upper.Like an 18 in fluted HBAR with a rifle length gas system.You use a rifle handguard.
If the standard .250 pins work out,you can always build another lower later
 
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I also wouldn't make changes to this AR. But buying a modern upper makes sense. You can swap between the orginal and new uppers quickly yet not devalue an older Colt. If you buy a 16" midlength gas upper a standard bayonet will fit - or a 14.5" carbine gas upper. The bayonet doesn't fit on the 16" carbine length gas system like yours.

How about some pictures? !!! :D
 
with the cost of colt made AR's you could sell it and buy the gun you currently like better or just get another upper and go shooting
 
Another vote for keeping your old upper and just picking up a new upper for your colt. Maybe a 14.5 middy flat top w/ perm attached FH or brake. You can put an optic on it or a red dot and keep your 20" upper as a KISS back up.
 
I wouldn't do anything to that upper. There are A2 fanatics that would pay a premium for an older original Colt A2 upper.

Buy a new upper as others have said that has the barrel, gas system length, ets you want. Forearm and all that stuff can be modified to w/e you want.
 
New full upper, don't mod the original. Get a full flat top, a good holosight, front and rear flip up back up sights, and go have some fun.
 
I like the idea of a whole new upper, but that raises more questions.

My original rifle is .223, I would want one that will shoot both .223 and 5.56 nato, I assume that is not a problem if I get a new upper.

Someone mentioned that I may have issues with the pin on my rifle fitting the new upper. How do I know if this is actually an issue?

What online suppliers do you recommend for uppers? I am basically looking for something short and light, but with a flat top and flip up irons. What should I realistically expect to pay?

Also, would I devalue it if I put on a different stock? The current stock is the old CAR stock that is just 2 positions. Would be nice to have more adjustment.

Sorry for all the noob questions, but I am not an AR expert by any means.

Thanks for the replys.
 
Someone mentioned that I may have issues with the pin on my rifle fitting the new upper. How do I know if this is actually an issue?
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Oh yeah, it's easy to forget about that! And it's important to find out before buying a new upper. Colt went through a period where they used nonstandard takedown and pivot pins, and trigger/hammer pins. The earliest and most recent ones are ok but the ones in between are affected. Does your pivot pin screw in or is it a standard push pin? Compare your lower to a standard one if you can or at least research pictures to determine which you have.

I know adapters are sold but it would be a hassle switching back and forth between large hole and standard hole uppers.
 
Bob S said:
My original rifle is .223, I would want one that will shoot both .223 and 5.56 nato, I assume that is not a problem if I get a new upper.

Someone mentioned that I may have issues with the pin on my rifle fitting the new upper. How do I know if this is actually an issue?

What online suppliers do you recommend for uppers? I am basically looking for something short and light, but with a flat top and flip up irons. What should I realistically expect to pay?

Also, would I devalue it if I put on a different stock? The current stock is the old CAR stock that is just 2 positions. Would be nice to have more adjustment.

Sorry for all the noob questions, but I am not an AR expert by any means.
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1) Most uppers will be 5.56, which will shoot .223 just fine. Nowadays the only .223 only uppers I really see are the long range varmint or otherwise precision oriented ones.

2) Quentin pretty well covered this one.

3) I generally buy a lot of stuff from PK Firearms. Decent prices, fast shipping. A quick look shows Rock River and Bushmaster 16" flat top uppers in the $500 range, which is right where I'd expect. A decent flip up rear that will work for regular use will run another $80-100 (there's cheaper ones like the Magpul MBUS, but that isn't really intended for regular use; I only recommend it if it will really not ever be your primary sighting system).

4) No, but I'd keep the old one so you can put it back to original condition if need be. You'll probably need both the receiver extension (aka buffer tube) and stock; make sure they're of the same size (you can use either a milspec size or a commercial size, but both the tube and stock must be the same... either will fit any in-spec lower receiver).
 
Sounds like by the time I buy a new upper, new flip up sites and a new stock, I could almost buy a new rifle. Out of curiosity, if I were to sell the Colt...what kind of prices are the Gov't Carbines bringing these days?

Thanks for all the info and help.
 
Most of the cost in an AR-15 is in the upper. A complete upper is almost the price of an entire rifle thanks to the barrel and bolt carrier group- generally the most expensive parts (and the ones with the most impact on reliability and accuracy). A complete lower can be had or built for $250-300, which is why AR enthusiasts tend to not just have multiple uppers to swap around but multiple complete rifles. If you have one upper all set up for close quarters defense and another for longer range precision and another that's more of a KISS, you aren't talking THAT much more to just throw a lower, LPK, and stock together to make that half gun a complete rifle.

I'm not sure what your Colt would go for; Colts tend to have decent resale value, but I couldn't really even give a reliable ballpark value.
 
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