Ok who were the traitors?

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Flaim

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Who voted for the candidate that could run us into the ground. The one that will take away our freedoms. Do I mean Al Gore? No!. Do I mean G. W. Bush? No! I mean Hary Brown. the Libretarian.

While surfing at fame15.com I came across this thread. http://forums.ar15.com/Forum3/HTML/023154.html
And it got me thnking. There were 18,000+ votes for the Lib party. Figure 3/4 of those would have voted Republican and not Dem if tey had to choose one of the other. Why the hell did they throw the country away? To make themselves feel better or make a point? Well I hope their point is worht the next 4 years of hell we will go through if Gore wins this.

The Dems can blame the people who voted for Nader. Well think we need to look at the people who voted Libretarian here.

Now don't get me wrong I would much rather have voted Libretarian myself. But in this electon. As clse as we all knew it would be we needed every little bit. Every single vote. That is the message we need to send.

God help us all.

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"Knowledge is a destination. Truth, the journey."
 
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
[1]It's spelled LIBERTARIAN.

[2]Voting for the candidate you believe in is NOT treachary. It's principaled. It takes integrity. Yes, some pragmatic Libertarians voted for Bush as the "Lesser of Two Evils," but some others stuck to their guns. I respect that, even though I'm not one of them.

[3]18,000 votes would not spread very far over FLA. Figure about 1,000 of those would have been Floridian Libertarian voters. You're going to call ALL of those "traitors"?
Even though many of them NEVER affiliated themselves with Republicans? </UL>

You might want to reconsider your name-calling. I'm upset, too, but this blame-making is unproductive.

L.P.

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited November 09, 2000).]
 
I voted Libertarian, I figured living in CA it wouldn't make much of a difference, and I can't stand either Gore or Bush. To put things in perspective, let's say instead of a recount they decided on a revote. All the Libertarians would vote for Bush instead, and all of Nader's supporters would vote for Gore, then, Bush would definitely lose. Be it the popular vote or Florida. Nader has more supporters than the Libertarian and Reform parties combined.

No sense crying over spilt milk.
 
MTAA, I am sorry you are stuck in Cali. It would be so nice if not for the Polotics out there. I agree it was a lost cause and Don't blame you. But states where it was gonna be close... Well that is different. I voted Lib in most of the Locals. But even in Indiana I voted for Bush.

Long Path... DOH!!! I am going on 39 hours with no sleep so spelling is low on my list of priorities right now. You would think I would know how to spell it since I intend to join the party. But in this case as I said. Well I think with the Gun issue that it should have been a no brainer to vote for Bush in the states where that vote would have made a difference. My point is that their "Stickig to their guns" is going to get mine taken away. Oh and that 18000 was IN Florida. I agree traitor maybe not. Blind? Yes.

I am not trying to point fingers at any individual. But the point is that a lot of votes were taken. *shrugs* To late now. There is no revote. We can only hope that there is enough of a buffer from the mailed in votes to pull Bush through.

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"Knowledge is a destination. Truth, the journey."
 
Tell ya what, Flaim. If you want to be upset, remember that the electors in many states (I believe CNN said 25 states) are free to vote any way the elector wants to vote.

- So much for fair and free elections.
- So much for "the voice of the people".

And with the Democrat machine obviously more in charge of their political machine and their followers than are the Republicans, ponder whether or not one or two electors will choose to switch from Bush to Gore - loosing the election for Bush even if he GETS Florida.

And Bush getting Florida is pretty chancy:
- "Finding" (?stuffed?) ballot boxes sounds like finding the lost FBI files on a White House coffee table. Gee, Flaim, do you think there might be something fishy there?
- *IF* true and valid votes are counted fairly and properly, it sounds like the election just might rest in the hands of the GIs who voted absentee. In that case, we may have ten days or so for a true final count.

Oh, and Flaim, NO Republican has any cause, let alone the right, to castigate anyone for not voting for the Republicans' version of gun control.

Do I prefer Bush over Gore? Of course. The same way I would rather lose a foot than an entire leg.

To call a fellow believer in the Second Amendment a "traitor" is inaccurate, uncalled for, divisive and (worst of all) falls directly into the strategy of HCI.

Whether Bush or Gore wins the election, we need to unite, get strong, get active and get results.

Bush will be bad enough banning gun ownership for those under 21, banning certain "high-caliber clips" (Bush's words), etc.

Gore will be a real disaster. And Hillary is getting primed in the wings! Now THAT is something to worry about.

Bill Clinton for eight years.
Gore for eight years.
Hillary for eight years.

Ponder *that*!

(Now where's my danged Mylanta... oh, yeah. Glug, glug, glug!)

By the way, the Libertarian Party says gun laws, ALL gun laws, are unconstitutional.

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited November 09, 2000).]
 
Flaim,
THOSE PEOPLE(Gore supporters) are saying the same thing about Nader robbing Gore of the vote. Don't sink to their level. I haven't been so disappointed in the Americans place on the right to vote since, I believe it was the SDS, nominated a pig.

For the record:
My THOSE PEOPLE comment is used in the same context as John Wayne, when he spoke of THOSE PEOPLE having the fire base in the movie :"The Green Beret's".

Also, as a gentel reminder to all, speeling ;) errors, may/may not be intentional. In any event, it's considered as gouche to use a mis-speeling ;) as a means of discounting the content, as it is to call names or shout via the use of caps.
(besides, some of us mis-spell or use weird puncuation as a form of "bookmark" as it lessens the number of search items. My own favorite, BTW is the incorrect probobly vs correct probably, since probably the most used word on the internet is probobly, probably)

[This message has been edited by RAE (edited November 09, 2000).]
 
Dennis,
Let me add to your horror story.
Al
Hillary
Chelsea.

God forbid.

I mentioned this about 2 years ago and was poo-pooed, BTW.
 
He has never said he would ban Gun ownership under 21. He said Pistols which is already a Law. He is trying to make the idiots happy if you ask me. But that is just my opinion. I am going by his record.

I don't know Rae, Chelsea is kinda cute. Maybe...

What!!! I am kidding. Why are you all looking at me like that? Guys.. Uh Guys... Please put the bat down. Nooo. Help.!

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"Knowledge is a destination. Truth, the journey."

[This message has been edited by Flaim (edited November 09, 2000).]
 
If Gore wins because some people stood on principle and voted for a third party candidate then is it fair to say that this particular principle is of little value in the real world?

My personal philosophy is somewhere between cynicism and pragmatism. I also am principled in that there are issues where I will not compromise. I see a third party vote in this particular election as an exercise of vanity which I do not consider to be a principle.

The real issue was a choice of our next president in a time when our freedom is very much at stake and this might very well be our last chance to insure the future of the rights we hold dear. In this context to vote for a third party candidate is to ignore the major issue because we would rather rearrange the deck chairs.


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You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."

Better days to be,

Ed
 
I don't know the exact dates, but didn't the Republican party start out in much the same position the Libertarian party is in now; a minor, barley noticed third party?

The Libertarian party is gaining momentum. They qualified for Major Party Status in Washington state this time 'round - did better than Nader in that regard.

I think I could live with voting Libertarian for several election cycles, thus "giving" my vote to the democrats (with all the attendant unpleasantness of them in the white house), if I thought my effort in that regard would eventually (say in 25 or 50 years) help lead to a Libertarian president in the White House.

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"Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz

[This message has been edited by deanf (edited November 09, 2000).]
 
"I don't know Rae, Chelsea is kinda cute. Maybe... "

Hey, how about that Marla Hooch? (as the camera pans back,,,,,wayyyyyyy back)LOL!
You'll notice, I chose to end the dynasty with "Hey, watch me eat this apple through a chain link fence" C. By that time, the clone process should be about ready for prime time.
 
Flaim,
“He has never said he would ban Gun ownership under 21. He said Pistols which is
already a Law.”

He said “gun ownership”. 8/29/99
http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=23829

Yes, I still prefer Bush to Gore - by a long shot! ;)
But Bush is not a savior of the Second Amendment.
-----

RAE,

STOP THAT!

(Gag, choke.) First you confuse me with the probably probobly, then add to
my horror story, and then hit on Chelsea???

Mercy, man! Mercy!

:D :D
-----

Ed,

For the first time in eons, we disagree. If a person is honest in his/her
intent, I believe it unfair to call it vanity.

Bear in mind, if 83,000,000 owners voted for freedom, there would BE no
gun laws. The reviled Libertarians believe gun laws to be unconstitutional.

But, because the Libertarians want to eliminate the drug laws and return us
to the free choice we had at the turn of the last century, they’re considered
irrational. Uh huh. It’s much better to put our faith in government control?

Just like Prohibition, the War on Drugs has created more violence and
disrespect for the law (and those who enforce it).

Americans have become afraid of liberty - so they vote to become “subjects” by
voting for Gore or (to a lesser extent) Bush. That’s not vanity, I’ll admit, but it’s
not voting for freedom either.

------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
HOW DARE YOU?! Who do you think you are?

I DO NOT take being called a traitor lightly. Though I am in PA and not one of those 18,000 in FL you refer to, PA was supposed to be a battle ground state also, so I suppose you would bundle me in with them.

On top of that, my mom voted Libertarian for the first time. I don't know or care who you are, but no one is going to disparage my mother like that.

You would call someone a traitor because they voted for the party that most supports RKBA?
 
Don't know about the Libertarian vote hurting Bush's chance - What really hurt was listening to some of the exit polls which indicated about 40% of all voting gun owners voted for Gore.

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Jim Fox
 
I'm with Jim. I voted for Bush, and I will apologize to no Libertarian for my choice, because it was my right to make it. Why should they apologize to me?

The people who "helped elect Gore" are the tens of millions of fools who VOTED FOR HIM. No one else. They take the blame for what he does. The Libertarians were voting their consciences just like you, so lay off.
 
Well Don the only problem is that I did not vote my conscience. If that were the case then I would have voted just like they did. I voted for the only chance this country has. And it is not with a candidate that is going to get less that 1% of the vote.

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"Knowledge is a destination. Truth, the journey."
 
Dennis,

Speaking of who you agree with or don't agree with, did you notice that back in your Aug '99 thread where you "outed" Dubya, you swayed Ivan8883 to your side? You and Ivan, back to back, fighting against all... ( :))

[sorry 'bout that...]

Ahem.

Don't get all enFlaimed about this, folks. These are trying times. ;)

I sometimes stick in a werd that's been mangled, too, for search purposes, but I don't make it a principle topic word, and never a proper noun.

--L.P.
 
I voted Libertarian. I voted for principal. If you didn't, you're the traitor. If you don't like the fact that I voted for FREEDOM, you have a problem.

BITE ME!!!


(BTW: My state went to Bush. My vote had no tangible effect on the outcome.)
 
I don't think anyone is a Traitor, I think everyone had a right to vote for whom THEY wanted. It's their right, just like it is your right , Flaim, to own a gun.
 
We will not have TFL split because of this.
Welcome to the TFL Family.

Now behave or you'll be sent to your rooms without supper.

Thread closed.
 
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