OK to carry a gun onto an airplane in MO

blenderhead

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From: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/273095.html

Former Chief Bill Maas won’t face state charges
By GLENN E. RICE
The Kansas City Star
Former Kansas City Chiefs nose tackle Bill Maas will not face state charges after he was detained at Kansas City International Airport on Sept. 5 when security screeners discovered a loaded 9mm Glock handgun in his carry-on bag as he prepared to board a flight.

Maas said he grabbed the wrong bag when he was departing for the airport, officials said. The handgun was confiscated, and Maas was released pending additional investigation.

Maas could not be reached for comment on Wednesday.

“Missouri law currently makes it impossible to prosecute someone who tries to carry a gun on a plane unless that person was going to commit a crime,” Platte County Prosecutor Eric Zahnd said.

The facts in Maas’ case are similar to those in dozens of other cases, which Zahnd said his office has been forced to reject over the past several years. Carrying a weapon aboard a plane is prohibited by federal regulations, but is legal under state law because of the Missouri loophole, Zahnd said.

However, Maas could still face a civil penalty from the Transportation Security Administration.

Carrie Harmon, a TSA spokeswoman, said she could not comment on any particular case, but said passengers are notified whether they are assessed a civil penalty within 60 days of the violation. The penalty range for carrying a loaded firearm is between $3,000 and $7,500, Harmon said.

Maas, who lives in Lee’s Summit, could also face municipal charges under a Kansas City ordinance. City prosecutor Beth A. Murano said nothing has been submitted to her office.


I read somewhere else that in Missouri (I suppose as in TX), you can conceal carry while engaged in 'continuous travel'.
 
IMHO law abidding folks going about their own business with concealed carry would make the airlines a hell of a lot more safer than any number of TSA agents(attitude to boot) ever could.

Cheaper too.
No more planes going down by box cutters


If concealed carry works on the ground....it will work in the air.
(the value of my life doent change in the air or not)
 
Ah... But you guys are forgetting how is it possible to determine, without a doubt, one's intent. I'm sorry, but I don't believe that there is a way to do this. This will also lead to discrimination. Any one who looks like someone of Arab decent will be prosecuted since their intent is to take down the plane. It doesn't matter if the person is actually Indian and is not affiliated with any terrorist organization. Besides, do you really feel safer with some stranger carrying a gun on a plane, even if you have no idea about their capability and knowledge of gun safety? I'm all for the ability to protect one's self, but even I can't see legalizing guns in an airport.
 
Besides, do you really feel safer with some stranger carrying a gun on a plane, even if you have no idea about their capability and knowledge of gun safety?

It would scare the hell out of me if the stranger is a hijacker sneaking it on the plane and i'm not carrying. At least if I and other citizens are allowed to carry on the plane we're a little closer to being on an even footing.

WA, if you're looking for statistics on whether CC deters crime in general, I don't think there are anything concrete and conclusive statistics on that.

But for me I'd say concealed carry works for me on the ground because I have had 0% experience of being successfully attacked while armed, and 0% incidence of shooting myself while armed. My household also has a 0/100,000 per capita murder rate. Mean, mode and median for all violent crimes in my household is also zero. With no outliers. Standard deviation is also zero.

WaynetakingaclassonstatisticsinFL
 
I think the statistic is that in a gun fight 1 in 4 shots hit their intended target. If you miss on an airplane and don’t hit someone else, you just de- pressurized the cabin.
 
So everybody on the plane has to use their oxygen, and the plane doesn't get crashed into the hijacker's intended target. If somebody has bad aim, then three people on the plane die rather than a hundred.

Works for me.
 
If you miss on an airplane and don’t hit someone else, you just de- pressurized the cabin.
Nope. There is sufficient bleed-air capacity that a dozen bullet holes wouldn't seriously lower the cabin pressure.
 
What makes you think it works on the ground?

WA, John Lott, in his study published as More Guns, Less Crime, proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, using impeccable multiple-regression-analyzed data and statistical method, that CCW laws "work" to decrease violent crime (murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault). They DON'T "work" to reduce property crimes - they cause a slight uptick in property (non-violent) crime. So it depends on your definition of "work". In my book, it's a good tradeoff to reduce violent crime tremendously (as he proved) even though you experience more property crime, so in my view (and most people's), CCW laws "work" - actually, it's only been proven that "shall-issue" CCW laws work - I do not believe he studied discretionary laws (Calif, NY, etc.). Many anti-gun folks have attempted to discredit Lott's studies, but all have failed miserably. The guy is a U. of Chicago sociologist & statistician, and a brilliant one at that. The data is not interpretable any other way using the scientific method and controlling for all relevant variables using multiple regression analysis. Read, my man, READ (something besides Roman history).

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

Question: What does the title mean: More Guns, Less Crime?

John R. Lott, Jr.: States with the largest increases in gun ownership also have the largest drops in violent crimes. Thirty-one states now have such laws—called "shall-issue" laws. These laws allow adults the right to carry concealed handguns if they do not have a criminal record or a history of significant mental illness.

Question: It just seems to defy common sense that crimes likely to involve guns would be reduced by allowing more people to carry guns. How do you explain the results?


John R. Lott, Jr. is a resident scholar at American Enterprise Institute. He was previously the John M. Olin Visiting Law and Economics Fellow at the University of Chicago Law School.


Lott: Criminals are deterred by higher penalties. Just as higher arrest and conviction rates deter crime, so does the risk that someone committing a crime will confront someone able to defend him or herself. There is a strong negative relationship between the number of law-abiding citizens with permits and the crime rate—as more people obtain permits there is a greater decline in violent crime rates. For each additional year that a concealed handgun law is in effect the murder rate declines by 3 percent, rape by 2 percent, and robberies by over 2 percent.

Concealed handgun laws reduce violent crime for two reasons. First, they reduce the number of attempted crimes because criminals are uncertain which potential victims can defend themselves. Second, victims who have guns are in a much better position to defend themselves.

Question: What is the basis for these numbers?

Lott: The analysis is based on data for all 3,054 counties in the United States during 18 years from 1977 to 1994.
 
Ask John Lott why NYC with strict gun control laws and NO ccw effectively has a lower violent crime rate that Anchorage Alaska, where anyone can carry anytime without a permit, let me know what he says.

Read, my man, READ (something besides Roman history).

I am, this weeks selections are another go around with the battle of Verdun as well as some interesting ones about the revival of anti semitism in the American right wing.

WildifyouwanttosupportconcealedcarrydontfallintostatisticaltrapsAlaska TM
 
Ask John Lott why NYC with strict gun control laws and NO ccw effectively has a lower violent crime rate that Anchorage Alaska, where anyone can carry anytime without a permit, let me know what he says.

So with that statement, using anecdotal evidence (at 2 places) at a single point in time, to prove a point, is your basis of challenging multiple regression analyzed data by a master statistician, who spent several years and hundreds of pages explaining his work, when he studied all 3,000 some odd counties in the nation, over a period of 18 years? It's so silly of an "argument" that it's laughable. I seriously think you're getting dementia if you think that your anecdotal evidence trumps an in-depth 18 year study with flawless impeccable scientific method. A 7th grade science student would laugh hysterically at the notion of your "argument" holding any scientific validity whatsoever. There are exceptions to every rule, but the basis point and thesis has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. No questions asked. Period. How many years and classes do you have in statistics and the sicentific method? Would you like to attempt to actually rebut his work? Mr. Lott and myself and millions of other gun toters would for you to try that. Many with much greater credentials than yours have tried and failed (and who are much more anti-gun than you as well, so they have more motivation). But maybe you'll succeed in finding a flaw in the methodology and therefore the conclusion. Many other factors affect crime rates, as his book explains thoroughly in great detail - arrest rates, conviction rates, sentence lengths, investigation rates. When held constant (ceteris paribus - using the regression analysis), CCW laws reduce violent crime, with a slight uptick in property crime. In my book, that means they "work".
 
Ask John Lott why NYC with strict gun control laws and NO ccw effectively has a lower violent crime rate that Anchorage Alaska, where anyone can carry anytime without a permit, let me know what he says.

Interesting. What are the respective rates, and why is the word "effectively" in your sentence?

publiusstats?42
 
Wild Alaska, is right, more guns do not mean less crime. The idea doesn’t work, because it implies that guns effects crime. guns and their ownership do not affect the decision process of either the citizen or the criminal.

basicaly John Lott is wrong. It is probaly more important to question what you belive is right then what you belive is wrong.
 
Quote: "I read somewhere else that in Missouri (I suppose as in TX), you can conceal carry while engaged in 'continuous travel'."

DON'T THINK SO!! Have lived all my life in Texas, flown often during my working career, and have a TX Concealed Handgun License. NEVER have I heard that you can carry a gun onto an airliner in your carry on bag. You CAN transport them in your checked baggage, however.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB
 
Wild Alaska, is right, more guns do not mean less crime. The idea doesn’t work, because it implies that guns effects crime. guns and their ownership do not affect the decision process of either the citizen or the criminal.

basicaly John Lott is wrong. It is probaly more important to question what you belive is right then what you belive is wrong.

No, WA is wrong, as are you. 180 degrees. Read the book, "More Guns, Less Crime." Come back with a degree in statistics and a published rebuttal why you think the scientific method used by Mr. Lott is flawed, and then we'll listen to you. But you won't, because if you did, you'd agree - there is no way around the conclusion reached in the book - it is more solid and unmovable than the rock of Gibraltar.
 
back on topic, I think it would be a better idea if a person were able to carry mace or a stun gun on a plane as oposed to a gun.


anyone interested in starting a new thread for the more guns less crime topic?
 
I read somewhere else that in Missouri (I suppose as in TX), you can conceal carry while engaged in 'continuous travel'.
That applies to continuous and direct journey while traveling by automobile on interstate highways and it's a federal provision in FOPA
 
why is the word "effectively" in your sentence?

It should have been in parenthesis, meaning of course although CCW is legal in NYC whilst permitted, nobody gets one.


It's so silly of an "argument" that it's laughable.

Then why are you responding.

I seriously think you're getting dementia if you think that your anecdotal evidence trumps an in-depth 18 year study with flawless impeccable scientific method. A 7th grade science student would laugh hysterically at the notion of your "argument" holding any scientific validity whatsoever

Ad hominem.

PS. Not that I give a whit what you beleive, its important for lurkers to note the following:

How is the actual reported violent crime rate in these two cities "anecdotal".

If Mr Lotts theory or analysis is correct, then the violent crime rate in Anchorage should be less than in NYC. Ditto NYC vis a vis Houston, Dallas, Miami (IIRC), without any "regression analysis" (read make something up to prove your point). If the number of armed folks in the populace make a difference in making streets safer, then baghdad should be the garden of eden.

Mr. Lott attempts to explain anomalies by statistical tricks, despite the fact that non agenda driven folks easily recognize that crime rates are a complex scenario dependent not only on socioeconomic factors but on psycololgical ones as well. To take Mr. Lotts analysis as gospel is to take as gospel the opposite, which an experienced statistician can easily prove.

Statistics in terms of analyzing human behavior are indicative, not conclusive. I for one find the argument of common sense far more compelling than concocted statistics.

Kudos to you MDman to not be so blind that you cannot see.

WildjumpoutofthestatstrapbrothersandsistersAlaska TM
 
Revised MO statutes on weapons offenses:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/STATUTES/C571.HTM

Do yourself a favor and call the airport before you even think of showing up with a firearm. Just because the county prosecutor don't charge you under state law, doesn't mean that the airport police/TSA can't yank you into federal court.

Research. Somewhere besides here, so you get verifiable answers and not opinions or arguments.
 
back on topic, I think it would be a better idea if a person were able to carry mace or a stun gun on a plane as oposed to a gun.

I could see tasers being a fairly effective alternative, but there aren't nearly as many people who own them or who are trained with them.
 
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