OK S&W guys, what's this ??

S

ScoutinStAugustine

New member
4" barrel, shiny nickle, 6 shot. Left side of barrel is 'SMITH & WESSON'. Right side of barrel is '38 S & W SPECIAL CTG'.
'MADE IN USA' is stamped under the cylinder on the right side. Interesting thing, on the rearward side of the cylinder, and on the bottom of the butt, is the # 4802--, followed by an B inside a diamond. But on the frame, visible only when you open the cylinder, is the # 461--. On the bottom of the barrel, only visible when you swing the cylinder out of the way, is a B inside a diamond and the # 4802--. On the top of the barrell, it says '
SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. U.S.A
PATENTED FEB.6. 06. SEPT. 14 09. DEC. 29 14.'
I'll do the best I can with photos. The leather holster it came with says
'DUNLOP Miami, FLA.' The story is that a Miami cop gave it to my friend's father who recently passed away, in his '70's. Any information is appreciated.
 

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I'm guessing it's a M1904 4th Change. (Pre model 10.)
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I think 41special has nailed it. Almost. Serial number under the barrel, rear of the cylinder, and on the butt places it in the range for the .38 Military and Police Model 1905 4TH Change. Made somewhere between 1915-1942, probaly in the early 1920's.

The number inside the crane is, I believe, an assembly number, used to keep the proper pieces together during manufacture. You will probably find that same number somewhere on the butt under the grips, and maybe somewhere on the barrel.
 
The ONLY cartridges I would shoot in it would be CAS 38 Special 158 gr LEAD. The M1905 4th change was NOT heat treated. I would only use LEAD rounds to be safe. Off the shelf UMC or white box might accelerate wear. KB? Doubtful but, the timing and internal action parts weren't built with modern loadings/pressures in mind. Go easy. I couldn't tell from the angles of the pics, this model should have a very poor rear sight. They used a small dimple with a tiny notch. Worst design I ever saw.
 
Funny , according to the SCoS&W, a diamond with a B inside would indicate a factory refinish (in blue). It also indicates that this may indicate a major part replacement. Anyway, Nice (4th modle 1905) gun. Interesting thing is that I bought one yesterday at a show on a whim. Not identical but very similar. M&P mod 1905 , mine is a 6.5" , either first or second mod and was also refinished.
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I also plan to shoot this one occasionally. It's tight as a new pistol and very nicely ballanced.
 
Tacoma...

Interesting thing is that I bought one yesterday at a show on a whim.
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What show were you at? The next show in our area (Western Mass) is the second weekend in March.

If you post the first few digits of the serial number, I can help date it for you.
 
Have the gun looked at by a competent gunsmith. If it checks out OK shoot the snot out of it, few revolvers shoot better than those old Smiths. Don't worry about jacketed ammo, it won't hurt a thing. Just stay away from the +P ammo in quantity.
 
Well, I'm to late to say it's a M1904 4th Change, but not to late to show mine off.

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Mine is factory nickel. You will note that the hammer and trigger are case hardened on mine. If your trigger and hammer are nickeled, then it was refinished in nickel AFTER that renluing by the factory. The nickel job would not be factory with the hammer and trigger nickeled. Thanks for the info on the lead bullets Sir William. I had been shooting WWB from mine with no problems, but I'd like to go easy on the old girl. Absolutely no +P should go through this gun. At the very least it will ruin the nickel on the cylinder. Even one +P round will do that. I would agree, looking at the pics that your's might have a bumper shop chrome job. It really makes no difference, as it is a shooter now anyway, and a darned fine one at that! Any rifling left?

Smithandwessonmilitarypolicestag.jpg
 
Fprice, I was in Marlbourough. Nice show. Good mix of modern, collectable, military, knifes, memorabilia, etc. No one thing dominated the show. BTW, what show is coming up your way. Springfield?

I checked the 126xxx serial # ( in SCoS&W,2nd) and in overlaps between 1st and 2nd issue between 06'and 09'. That's as close as I can figure but am open to additional info to narrow it down.
 
A K-frame .38 with that serial number would have been made in the late 1920s or sometime in the 1930s, long before S&W started heat treating to take the higher pressure rounds.

Even though S&W introduced the .38-44 around that time, it was only for use in the N-frame, not the K-frames.
 
Tacoma...

Fprice, I was in Marlbourough.
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I've thought about going to that show now that I have more time. I'll have to see when the next one is. You are correct about our next local show being the Big E Gunshow. It used to be pretty good but the last few years have seen a decline. Still, I go in hopes of finding that rare find. I have found a very few good buys and added to my collection though.

I checked the 126xxx serial # ( in SCoS&W,2nd) and in overlaps between 1st and 2nd issue between 06'and 09'. That's as close as I can figure but am open to additional info to narrow it down.
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Then you have gone as far as I could go. Next stop would be a letter/history request to Roy Jinks. I have found that these are worth it and highly recommend it for S&W's with potential interesting history.
 
Mike,

You may well be correct. However, for what it's worth, I just took a look in Supica and Nahas's SCSW 2nd edition, and on page 101 they say of the .38 M&P Model1905 4th Change, ". . .Changes from 3rd model are primarily internal, heat-treated cylinders began at 316648."

I have often heard this number quoted as the beginning of safe +P use, but I have no actual knowledege myself.
 
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