Ok Libertarians, a few questions

A

ArmySon

Staff Alumnus
Don't take me wrong, I think the Libertarian Party is the closest to my own personal beliefs. However, a few concerns about having a Libertarian President.

1. How would the house and senate treat the President since the majorities are democrats and republicans? Especially when the Pres. propose bills.

2. How do you convince the rest of the country to vote Libertarian? The vast majority of people are so used to voting for the two main evils... errr parties.
 
As to number 1: I think we would see gridlock like we have not seen before, which I think is a good thing. I want the government ground to a halt.

As to number 2: You have to get libertarians into the debates. Harry Browne could clean the clocks of Bush and Gore on a variety of issues.

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"Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz
 
If the country came to the point where they elected a Libertarian, they would no longer need one.

Rick
 
A Lib pres would probably veto every bill that came across his/her desk, unless its only provisions were to revoke a previously existing law.
A Lib pres would probably go down in history as having vetoed more bills than any other pres. How many of the vetos would be overridden is a big question.
I still remember that towards the end of Bush's administration, there was a bill before Congress that he wanted to kill. However, his advisors informed him that the bill had enough support that a veto would be overridden. Bush didn't veto it, because he had a perfect veto record and wanted it to remain that way.
Shows where the typical pol's head is: he's more concerned about his "legacy" and how history will judge him than principles.

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Shoot straight & make big holes, regards, Richard at The Shottist's Center
 
A presidency characterized by Executive/Congressional gridlock and a record number of vetos? What could possibly be better than that? (Aside from seeing Slick Willie clearing ditch banks in a chain gang, that is.)
 
As to #1...I think most of the Congressmen and Senators would handle it the same way they do now; they will look at the polls of their district, listen to their party leaders and do whatever it takes to get re-elected. The others would probably vote their conscience.

#2: How do you get the rest of the country to vote Libertarian? By voting Libertarian. Small increases in the Libertarian vote will eventually create an awakening. Neal Boortz (try to catch his show if you can, or go to www.boortz.com) tells a story of biologists studying monkeys on an island somewhere. They would put food out on the beach for the monkeys, but the sand created digestive problems for the monkeys. After a few weeks one of the monkeys learned to wash his food in the water before eating it. Slowly, other monkeys in the band with the first monkey learned the trick, and a few other monkeys in other bands learned it. The number of food washers reached a plateau with a few small increases and then suddenly, almost overnight, nearly all of the monkeys started washing their food. It was as if there really was a straw that broke the camel's back. By adding on in small numbers it reached a point of critical mass...the idea caught on! The same can happen with Libertarians. Granted, Boortz relayed this story much better than I have (it was a while back, so I don't recall all the exact numbers and details). In fact I'm sure I have left out some important point or messed something up, but I think you get the idea. As long as we keep voting for Republicans and Democrats, we will keep getting Republicans and Democrats...amazing ain't it?!?!

BTW, you have a great website!

Jack

[This message has been edited by Jack Straw (edited August 04, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ArmySon:
Don't take me wrong, I think the Libertarian Party is the closest to my own personal beliefs. However, a few concerns about having a Libertarian President.

1. How would the house and senate treat the President since the majorities are democrats and republicans? Especially when the Pres. propose bills.

2. How do you convince the rest of the country to vote Libertarian? The vast majority of people are so used to voting for the two main evils... errr parties.[/quote]


#1: Nothing would get done as the prez would veto everything, but Congress would probably get some through with the 2/3 override.

#2: I was a liberal for most of my days until I saw Harry Browne on a PBS interview. He was very articulate, and what he said seemed to make sense. I then decided to read up on libertarian beliefs. I was hooked. Not everyone will be convinced, and I think libertarians can only influence the republicrats' thinking. Many of the current political ideas came out of the libertarian realm (privatizing social security, ending welfare, de-regulation, etc.). If you look back at the damage done by Roosevelt and those after him, we are slowly turning back the other way (but not in terms of gun rights).
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RickD:
If the country came to the point where they elected a Libertarian, they would no longer need one.

Rick[/quote]

Very well said, Rick.
 
This is a little something I wrote Awhile back.


The rise of the Third Party

For a Third Party (TP) to come to power in America there must be a cohesive, planned, slow growth cumulating in a Presidential Victory.

Organization. The TP must begin by establishing infrastructure at the state level. Preferably in all 50 states, or in a certain region. Each State Third Party (STP) has three main goals.
1. The establishment of a working infrastructure to include; Press contacts, known spokes-people and the other traditional trappings of a Party.
2. Become a "Player" in the State. Acting like a lobby group supporting and addressing ALL political acts in the State.
3. Running for State level Offices as often as feasible. If it is not feasible to run in a race. Another non-party candidate should be promoted. The TP needs to be seen as a powerful lobby group/ Party in its state, so that if it can't win it's self, can be a "spoiler" or "king maker".
EST time 4-6 years.

The next step for the TP is to start on House and Senate levels. This should be championed in state with the highest TP power. At this level, candidates who are obviously going to lose should "step down" and support one of the other Parties candidates. It should be made known at all times, WHY the other's party's candidate is being promoted. This will give the TP a feel of credibility, and let the people know that the issues are more important then who's voting.

The last step is the Presidential Elections. Too many TP jump straight to a expensive Presidential run instead of a more restrained growth with a chance of winning a cheaper local seat. Buy building up a power base in the states. Less will have to be allocated to win these states and more can be allocated to "swing" and "enemy" states. Plus by now there will be members of the TP in the House and Senate, Maybe even in Governor level. This will add credibility to the TP candidate and make it easier for a presidential win.



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Go Ugly Early.

AD HOMINEM; Helping Morons argue since 1549!!!
 
Originally posted by EricM:
#1: Nothing would get done as the prez would veto everything, but Congress would probably get some through with the 2/3 override.

Harry already has a plan in place for this. If Congress tries to pass, say, another tax increase or pay raise for themselves, Harry vetoes it, and they override him... go on TV/radio/.net and say, "Hey, I *tried* to get those creeps to give you your money back, and they said, 'No! We're keeping it, nyah!'" Imagine the outrage... ;)

As for RKBA... Harry is 100% pro-gun. Not squishy like some candidates; he wants to abolish every single gun control law on the book, disband ATF, and take a sledgehammer to NICS. That's a helluva lot better than "enforce existing laws, ban hi-caps, and ban assault weapons," ain't it?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Coinneach:
As for RKBA... Harry is 100% pro-gun. Not squishy like some candidates; he wants to abolish every single gun control law on the book, disband ATF, and take a sledgehammer to NICS. That's a helluva lot better than "enforce existing laws, ban hi-caps, and ban assault weapons," ain't it? [/B][/quote]

Yes it is a lot better Coinneach, however Mr. Browne has about as much chance of being elected as a snowball has of surviving in Hell. Please don't take this as a flame for it isn't...it's just fact I'm sorry to say.



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"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Coinneach:
As for RKBA... Harry is 100% pro-gun. Not squishy like some candidates; he wants to abolish every single gun control law on the book, disband ATF, and take a sledgehammer to NICS. That's a helluva lot better than "enforce existing laws, ban hi-caps, and ban assault weapons," ain't it? [/quote]

Coinneach, I was told by a well known libertarian author that while the LP is pro-gun, Harry himself does not like guns. Dunno if it's true, and it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.



[This message has been edited by EricM (edited August 04, 2000).]
 
We already have had gridlocked congress in the past. I don't think that would happen. Partisan bickering would result in even more third party candidates. Remember how Newts popularity went down when he tried those "punishment" tactics. I personally think it's a cop out not to vote for someone cause you don't think they will win. Like I said in another post, the status quo paints the other as the enemy, the world as we know it will end if so and so is elected. The sheeple fall for it and the two parties live happily ever after. If the repubs are so pro-gun as everyone thinks why did the hostletter bill fail. I'm glad I'm a member of GOA.
 
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